*Official* Third Test at the WACA

[Rant0r]

He may be in time but he certainly isn't ready as a bowler for test cricket yet. Might be the best way to find out though as a few years down the line we still haven't picked Rashid and he has a far better record than Smith.

Difference is that England are in a position to be able to nuture Rashid for a while behind Swann and Panesar, Australia are not

On the basis of the first two tests, its pretty fair to say that eventhough England have bowled well, they have been helped to a large extent by the lack of application from the Aussie batsman.
None of the English bowlers have actually bowled an unplayble spell or anything, they and their captain have just stayed patient and worked on a precise plan to get a batsman out.
On the other hand don't think most of the Aussie bowlers bowled as badly as its being made out, the thing is Ponting has been too restless in his field placements and tactics and has just lacked the patience Strauss has shown.
I think Tubby summed it up perfectly when he was on air, that Australia have been a bit too 'funky' with their tactics, and that's why they have been a bit all over the shop, and that's something I totally agree with.

There's a lot to be said for simply trying to get batsmen out traditionally, everyone is capable of nicking to the slips, it just takes a bit of patience in both the field and with the ball

Yeah, and this is why I find Australia losing everything even less bearable than Australia winning everything. Somehow it makes people want to be even more dismissive of every single opposition player in world cricket in their attempts to back up their whinging about how the selectors/coach/captain/old players/young players are holding Australia back from their rightful place at the top of the cricketing world. Anything less than that and it has be someone's fault - and it can't just be the opposition having better players. Heaven forbid.

I SOOO agree with this, downplaying how well the opposition are playing is a pet pasttime of fans and media alike in Australia. This is basically the same team that played in England and probably had the better of the series but lost. now they are down on confidence and teamwork and being outplayed

 

[flibbertyjibber]

If they go with Bresnan, I hope that's because they plan for him to be bowling into the breeze and feel he would be the most effective at doing so. Beefing up the lower order is a bonus but imo shouldn't really be taken into account too much on the basis our top 7 is incredible form and should get enough runs on the board between them. Swann at 8, and either Tremlett or Shahzad is not bad anyway so don't think Bresnan's batting should hold too much sway.

I have a feeling they may go with him just to bowl into the breeze. The fact is he is highly rated by the backroom team and with him having the most international experience i wouldn't be surprised if he got the nod.

 

[Rant0r]

I think Tremlett is a better option. I heard on the radio however that Bresnan was bowling a really good old ball spell of reverse swing, not sure if Tremlett has that in his armoury. Tremlett is a better newer ball bowler and bowls tightly

 

[Furball]

Well... you mean the last two days of the first test.

Nah, England bowled well at Brisbane. To argue otherwise demeans the efforts of Hussey and Haddin in making the runs they did.

 

[Spark]

Not doubting that, but the problem with that bowling performance was exactly that you didn't display "huge" amounts of discipline, which was my point. You'd bowl well for an hour or two but then it would fall away and we would capitalise.

 

[Rant0r]

Captaincy didn't help, plans were changing by the over, sometimes several times an over

 

[Spark]

That counts as part of it though.

 

[vicleggie]

well well well

an attack of bresnan, finn and anderson (Who nipped off to england and back for birth of a child) , with swan maybe not on a wicket too suited for him . doesnt necessarily incite fear.

add to that englands 2nd string bowlers getting a flogging/them seemingly not taking it too seriously (unlike at the start of the series where strauss stressed it wasimperative to treat ALL practice matches porperly and try and WIN every match they played downunder), and adding to that KPs fine for speeding (i saw him on chapel st looked like he didnt have a care in the world)
seems like a bit of taking the foot off the pedal to me .

i dont get the same killer instinct vibe that england reeked of in the past month or so.
one swallow/testmatch doesnt make a summer. quietly confident for aus.

 

[Woodster]

Not doubting that, but the problem with that bowling performance was exactly that you didn't display "huge" amounts of discipline, which was my point. You'd bowl well for an hour or two but then it would fall away and we would capitalise.

Tbf, like I said partnerships of some size are inevitable on a flat batting deck, the fact that Australia have only managed one really good partnership shows England have been disciplined more often than not. That partnership by Hussey and Haddin deserves credit, yes Swann was below par, which certainly helped you out, but they both batted exceptionally well, albeit with a decent slice of luck during one particular morning session.

Our batting has been very disciplined and patient, think we all appreciate that so far.

 

[Woodster]

well well well

an attack of bresnan, finn and anderson (Who nipped off to england and back for birth of a child) , with swan maybe not on a wicket too suited for him . doesnt necessarily incite fear.

add to that englands 2nd string bowlers getting a flogging/them seemingly not taking it too seriously (unlike at the start of the series where strauss stressed it wasimperative to treat ALL practice matches porperly and try and WIN every match they played downunder), and adding to that KPs fine for speeding (i saw him on chapel st looked like he didnt have a care in the world)
seems like a bit of taking the foot off the pedal to me .

i dont get the same killer instinct vibe that england reeked of in the past month or so.
one swallow/testmatch doesnt make a summer. quietly confident for aus.

Not sure that's the case mate at all, but it's a decent way to try and get some inspiration and hope for your side, because your selectors aren't giving you any!

 

[vicleggie]

I SOOO agree with this, downplaying how well the opposition are playing is a pet pasttime of fans and media alike in Australia. This is basically the same team that played in England and probably had the better of the series but lost. now they are down on confidence and teamwork and being outplayed

i dont know if people are downplaying engalnds effort. i think the media/people alike are more disappointed in the WAY the aussies are playing, ie the manner, the spirit, as opposed to the result. i didnt hear too much complaining when india won, there was SO much praise for sachin it was incredible. for days after the second test, there was a running comparison on foxsports.com.au comparing sachin to bradman, suggesting he was better. when vvs won the first test there was almost celebration for how good a player he was in the aussie media- no downplaying, no blaming.

the only blaming i saw in aus was the hauritz/ponting scenario, which deserved criticism. other than that, everyone said hats off to the indians, theyre the better team by far.

Aus really started getting some stick after the first one dayer v sri lanka, where they needed 1 wicket and lanka needed 130 runs and pulled it off, and clarke was making 20 changes an over- again, the win and the efforts were praised, but the PROCESS of aus losing was criticized.

same could be said in the first 2 tests here. i dont know if anyones downplaying englands efforts, but it just has to be said, the way Aus is playing right now, whether they had escaped with a draw or not in adelaide, is poor. unctrolled, unstructured and unplanned. and the manner in which theyre playing is simply uninspiring to watch, as opposed to ando, swann, beautifully executing their plans, finn sticking at it and bowling a threatening line, pietersen swaggering to the crease and expressing himself, trott n cook fighting hard.

where are those processes from australia? thats whats being questioned.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Tbf, like I said partnerships of some size are inevitable on a flat batting deck, the fact that Australia have only managed one really good partnership shows England have been disciplined more often than not. That partnership by Hussey and Haddin deserves credit, yes Swann was below par, which certainly helped you out, but they both batted exceptionally well, albeit with a decent slice of luck during one particular morning session.

Our batting has been very disciplined and patient, think we all appreciate that so far.

Not sure that's necessarily true though, unless he has a tendency for form swings like Mitch Johnson.

He was made to look below par by the batsmen that took it up to him and refused to allow him to dictate terms by staying in their crease. Unfortunately there were only two of them. One of the same batsmen didn't have a great deal of trouble with Swann in Adelaide really.

Saying Swann was below par because two Australian batsmen played him well and he looked average is pretty much the same as saying England are winning because we're playing crap. Doesn't give enough credit to the people who are making the other players/team look poor.

 

[vicleggie]

Not sure that's the case mate at all, but it's a decent way to try and get some inspiration and hope for your side, because your selectors aren't giving you any!

haha, i know im clutching at straws! trying to create somewhat of an elaborate fantasy inmy mind so come a weeks time im enthused that this could be an equal contest

 

[Rant0r]

I think you'll find there was plenty of negative press coverage surrounding Australia's ill fated series against India and Pakistan over the winter, however, this is an Ashes series at home, the exposure is amplified somewhat

 

[Rant0r]

Not sure that's necessarily true though, unless he has a tendency for form swings like Mitch Johnson.

He was made to look below par by the batsmen that took it up to him and refused to allow him to dictate terms by staying in their crease. Unfortunately there were only two of them. One of the same batsmen didn't have a great deal of trouble with Swann in Adelaide really.

Saying Swann was below par because two Australian batsmen played him well and he looked average is pretty much the same as saying England are winning because we're playing crap. Doesn't give enough credit to the people who are making the other players/team look poor.

And I think that fact is underestimated too much

 

[vicleggie]

I think you'll find there was plenty of negative press coverage surrounding Australia's ill fated series against India and Pakistan over the winter, however, this is an Ashes series at home, the exposure is amplified somewhat

negative press is one thing- theyre the media its their job- if aus lose a match they have to write something. But whether that entails downplaying the other team is another thing. I dont think they downplayed india, but in the pakistan series i think they started questioning aus's middle order when they got bowled out for EIGHTY EIGHT. that question mark turned out to be valid as look at the buggers now.

so again, i dont know if its simply because aus are losing the media write trash- its more a reaction to the WAY they are (not) performing and losing

 

[Woodster]

Not sure that's necessarily true though, unless he has a tendency for form swings like Mitch Johnson.

He was made to look below par by the batsmen that took it up to him and refused to allow him to dictate terms by staying in their crease. Unfortunately there were only two of them. One of the same batsmen didn't have a great deal of trouble with Swann in Adelaide really.

Saying Swann was below par because two Australian batsmen played him well and he looked average is pretty much the same as saying England are winning because we're playing crap. Doesn't give enough credit to the people who are making the other players/team look poor.

I think I've given ample credit to both those batsmen throughout this series, they've been excellent so far. But on Swann, as he put it, a 12-year old kid could have bowled better than him at times in Brisbane. Now I wouldn't go that far, but he was well below par at times in that partnership and he rarely drops as many short as he did there, in Adelaide he was much better, even in the first innings when he didn't get the wickets, he made it much more difficult for those batsmen to hit him for the boundaries.

 

[Woodster]

haha, i know im clutching at straws! trying to create somewhat of an elaborate fantasy inmy mind so come a weeks time im enthused that this could be an equal contest

Ha ha, nothing wrong with that mate, and although there does look a gap between the sides at the moment you never know what might happen at Perth,

 

[Son Of Coco]

I think I've given ample credit to both those batsmen throughout this series, they've been excellent so far. But on Swann, as he put it, a 12-year old kid could have bowled better than him at times in Brisbane. Now I wouldn't go that far, but he was well below par at times in that partnership and he rarely drops as many short as he did there, in Adelaide he was much better, even in the first innings when he didn't get the wickets, he made it much more difficult for those batsmen to hit him for the boundaries.

Possibly, but I thought he dropped a number short due to the pressure put on him in the first innings in Brisbane too. Hussey, in particular, was at him from the word go. His margin for error was very small during that partnership. Don't think it had quite so much to do with terrible bowling on his part. Life gets very difficult for a spinner when a batsman is able to use his feet and there's not a hell of a lot there for him in the wicket.

In the second test Australia didn't build a partnership at any stage, Hussey still put a bit of pressure on Swann, but he was also bowling better than in Brisbane.

Don't think he was as much off his game in Brisbane though as a partnership was allowed to develop between two guys who were willing to take him on.

As for the 2nd innings in Adelaide, he was always going to be difficult to take on when the wicket's turning.

 

[andyc]

Seriously tho, Smith at 6 for me too, yeah. My one concern (were I an Aussie) would be that I wouldn't put the house on the boy making hay if he comes in at (say) 80/4, which isn't beyond the realms of the possible currently.

Agreed, he does seem more of a bloke who would add insult to injury rather than rescue an innings but in all fairness, he did alright coming in at 5/66 in the Aus A game.