***Official*** South Africa in England

[four_or_six]

I haven't seen anyone comment about Vaughan's knee anywhere, but maybe I missed it. Difficult to know if it's a tiny problem with too much being made out of it, or a bigger problem that's being played down!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/7484428.stm

What's the odds of him getting through the fairly hectic four test schedule. Or looking further into the future, it doesn't look great.

 

[Richard]

From what I understand, this sounds pretty similar to what was happening all the way through The Ashes 2005 (and it was hushed-up then too). Soon after which, need we remind ourselves, the big problems started.

IOW, this sounds very worrying. Any time knees which have always given trouble give any sort of trouble again it's always very worrying.

At least if Vaughan has to retire during or after this summer, he'll have proven a few things he hadn't back in 2006/07.

 

[four_or_six]

From what I understand, this sounds pretty similar to what was happening all the way through The Ashes 2005 (and it was hushed-up then too). Soon after which, need we remind ourselves, the big problems started.

IOW, this sounds very worrying. Any time knees which have always given trouble give any sort of trouble again it's always very worrying.

At least if Vaughan has to retire during or after this summer, he'll have proven a few things he hadn't back in 2006/07.

That he definitely can't play one-day cricket?

Nah, seriously though... it would be a big loss at any point until the end of next years Ashes. We don't exactly have domestic batsmen smashing the door down with weight of runs. And we certainly don't need to go through another captaincy farce like last time.

 

[Richard]

That he definitely can't play one-day cricket?

Aye, that too TBH. Which most educated-on-cricket people knew anyway. But more importantly, that he could still play Test cricket.

Nah, seriously though... it would be a big loss at any point until the end of next years Ashes. We don't exactly have domestic batsmen smashing the door down with weight of runs. And we certainly don't need to go through another captaincy farce like last time.

We've got far more domestic batsmen demanding inclusion than we've got captaincy material.

I've always said the biggest problem resulting from Vaughan's loss in 2005/06, 2006 and 2006/07 was the headless-chicken effect in the captaincy, even more so than the fact he missed the chance to score.

 

[four_or_six]

I've always said the biggest problem resulting from Vaughan's loss in 2005/06, 2006 and 2006/07 was the headless-chicken effect in the captaincy, even more so than the fact he missed the chance to score.

Absolutely, totally agree.

 

[Uppercut]

So what South Africa XI would everyone pick for the first test? A lot of it picks itself, I'd go:
Smith, McKenzie, Amla, Kallis, Prince, de Villiers, Boucher, Nel, Steyn, Ntini, Harris.
I thought Morkel bowled pretty well in India, but I doubt his fitness. Harris's inability to extract turn from surfaces doctored to that end in India is a serious concern, but he doesnt give much away and could get through more overs than another quick.

Picking the England team is a much harder job, I would recall Hoggard in place of Anderson and leave everything else as it is. But i don't think it matters what team they pick, they don't have the players to match the South African team and the best i can see them doing from the series is a draw.

 

[Richard]

So what South Africa XI would everyone pick for the first test? A lot of it picks itself, I'd go:
Smith, McKenzie, Amla, Kallis, Prince, de Villiers, Boucher, Nel, Steyn, Ntini, Harris.
I thought Morkel bowled pretty well in India, but I doubt his fitness. Harris's inability to extract turn from surfaces doctored to that end in India is a serious concern, but he doesnt give much away and could get through more overs than another quick.

I'd guess it'll be two from three of Nel, Morne Morkel and Harris. I'd have Nel and Morkel personally, but I am far from convinced SA won't go for Morkel and Harris.

Picking the England team is a much harder job, I would recall Hoggard in place of Anderson and leave everything else as it is. But i don't think it matters what team they pick, they don't have the players to match the South African team and the best i can see them doing from the series is a draw.

I still firmly think Hoggard a better bowler than Anderson too, but the chances of Hoggard being picked in preference to someone who took a nine-for in his most recent Test is precisely zero. I think Anderson is likely to be caned by Kallis et al but I imagine his place is safe for the opening two Tests (at least - and if by some miracle England win them I'd reckon more still).

 

[Marius]

I think this'll be the team

Smith
McKenzie
Amla
Kallis
Prince
De Villers
Boucher
Morkel
Harris
Steyn
Ntini

Morkel is the incumbent over Nel, and I believe that Mickey Arthur wants to try play a spinner at every oppunrtunity, so that's why Harris is there. ALthoug he didn't bowl well against India, it was his first really poor series, and the on the decks in Pakistan he bowled well. He's not as good as Monty or Vettori, but he'll block up an end, and nip three or four wickets for you in every Test.

I think this is testimony to the strength of SA cricket at the moment that the side virtually picks itself. On paper this side should beat England. But cricket is played on grass, and South Africa has thrown away leads in every post-isolation series, so we'll see how things go. I still think SA should win.

 

[Langeveldt]

Awta

 

[GIMH]

Flintoff hit a few today but is unlikely to be picked for the first Test. Any bowler who performs poorly at Lord's (well, if it's Anderson or Broad) will miss out at Headingly IMO

 

[Richard]

Not if we manage to win the game. Or even if we don't.

Seriously, how many times in the last few months have UK CW posters said "surely <insert team change - mostly concerning Broad, Bell, Anderson and Collingwood> is near-certain now?" only to see an unchanged team picked yet again?

 

[GIMH]

Aye, but if there's one man the selectors won't leave out it's a fit Flintoff

 

[tooextracool]

Seems unlikely at the moment. For good reason as I dont think he is ready just yet. In fact i would venture to suggest that Jones is more ready than Flintoff at the moment, and if I were the selectors, I would pick Jones for the first test. Unless the ball is swinging, I honestly dont expect anything but an absolute trouncing of an attack composed of Anderson, MSP, Broad and Sidebottom by the likes of Kallis and Amla.

 

[FBU]

Bowling averages at Lords

Hoggard 31.08
Harmison 31.45
Flintoff 35.92
Anderson 25.42
Jones 32.75
Panesar 36.78
Sidebottom 24.25
Broad 46.43

Ntini 22.00
Kallis 6.40
Steyn, Harris and Morkel haven't played at Lords even in county cricket.
Nel has bowled 5 overs in an ODI

 

[pietersenrocks]

I don't think South is gonna win the Test Series. By seeing England's & South Africa's Test record, I think England's will win but It will be an evenly matched Test series.

You guys would have thought differently had England beaten NZ in One-Dayers.

England won Tests in South Africa last time and we've not disproved in Tests.

And, also Sidebottom is as good as Steyn in Test Cricket, but a different type of bowler.

 

[Goughy]

Im becoming increasingly nervous (as we all know Im not too thrilled with the selection) but I do want it remembered that Ive backed England in this series for a loooong time.

 

[Richard]

Aye, but if there's one man the selectors won't leave out it's a fit Flintoff

Well, given that they're apparently about to do it, I'd not want to put too much money on them not doing it again.

TBH, however fit Flintoff is, I don't feel his form (and yes, to an extent with ball as well as obviously with bat) merits inclusion currently. Nothing worse than picking an out-of-form player who's just returned from injury - however good he is.

 

[wpdavid]

Im becoming increasingly nervous (as we all know Im not too thrilled with the selection) but I do want it remembered that Ive backed England in this series for a loooong time.

Indeed you have - I well remember you saying as much months ago.
btw who would be your English starting XI next week?

 

[Goughy]

Indeed you have - I well remember you saying as much months ago.
btw who would be your English starting XI next week?

No point going over old ground with the changes Id make to the team. Especially on the back of a series win.

I just think that SA are very thin. A couple of injuries or a couple of guys lose form and they will be in all sorts of trouble.

Of course if a few guys play out of their skin (ala Smith all those years ago) then SA will do fine. I just think they look fragile, especially in England.

If I was England Id be coming hard at the top order as it looks like a weakness and hope Steyn and Morkel find normal form (rather than the golden streak Steyn especially is on) and try and make Ntini beat us.

 

[wpdavid]

No point going over old ground with the changes Id make to the team. Especially on the back of a series win.

I just think that SA are very thin. A couple of injuries or a couple of guys lose form and they will be in all sorts of trouble.

Of course if a few guys play out of their skin (ala Smith all those years ago) then SA will do fine. I just think they look fragile, especially in England.

If I was England Id be coming hard at the top order as it looks like a weakness and hope Steyn and Morkel find normal form (rather than the golden streak Steyn especially is on) and try and make Ntini beat us.

Agreed about SA's top order. Whether we're good enough to take advantage is another matter, but we really should be trying to get Kallis in asap.

Trouble is, I think our batting is even thinner and our bowling isn't as good as SA's.