***Official*** South Africa in England

[Manee]

I don't think Morne is anywhere near as good as a great deal of people have professed yet. Seems there's been talk of him already being more worth a place than Nel. Which, well, he simply isn't.

Morkel Jnr obviously has potential, but no more than that currently.

Although Nel is a far more skillful bowler than Morkel, it is always hard to turn down someone who bowls at 150kph with steep bounce. Many preach the importance of spinners, but I think that a four/five pronged pace attack could work wonders in what is and will continue to be a wettish English summer - ie. why can't Morkel and Nel play?

 

[Richard]

No reason they can't. Even with his many imperfections, by-and-large Morkel should be > Harris in England, if conditions are to conform to "typical English" stereotypes.

The point is, though, of late Morkel has been picked ahead of Nel several times and there would have been more had Morkel not had a loooooooooong layoff for most of the 2007/08 season.

 

[Manee]

Honest question, what makes you think that Nel>Morkel?

 

[Richard]

The fact that Nel is so much more obviously talented at this stage.

About all Morkel currently has going for him is height and speed. Little besides. And until he does, I don't really want him playing Test cricket.

 

[Richard]

McKenzie bowling straight after Tea. Seems to make little sense. Hopefully no-one's injured.

If you didn't want to give your bowlers another run-out, why not just let Amla (and Kallis if fit) bat?

 

[Prince EWS]

The fact that Nel is so much more obviously talented at this stage.

About all Morkel currently has going for him is height and speed. Little besides. And until he does, I don't really want him playing Test cricket.

He has good control of length as well. His line strays at times but his length is consistently very good, which is somewhat unusual for someone with run-up/no-ball issues.

Nel may be more skilled than Morkel, but that doesn't mean he'll be more effective at Test level. He's been decidedly disappointing in the last two years averaging over 35 with the ball - and that includes a very, very flattering 13 wickets @ 26 against the West Indies where he bowled ****. His place was deservedly questioned and he's been dropped.

As for Morkel himself, I'm also of the belief that he is being over-hyped currently and I was amazed to hear some of the things that were said about him WRT his spot in the team during him long lay off with injury, but he bowled well in India and certainly doesn't deserved to be dropped at present. You often seem to want to "right the wrongs" of selection by dropping players who think were undeservedly selected, but that would cause even more problems in most cases - you can't just drop someone because they shouldn't have been selected ITFP if they perform well in their given chance.

 

[TT Boy]

The fact that Nel is so much more obviously talented at this stage.

About all Morkel currently has going for him is height and speed. Little besides. And until he does, I don't really want him playing Test cricket.

Thank God you don't select the team then. It was only last year that you still disputed the presence of Dale Steyn in the test team.

 

[Manee]

About all Morkel currently has going for him is height and speed. Little besides. And until he does, I don't really want him playing Test cricket.

And he hits the seam, do you really need much more in England? Especially considering his control of length is good.

 

[Goughy]

Nel bowling 145-150 kph >>>>> Nel now.

Speed is so important when combined with skill. Nel is a shadow of how he was, may now be the 4th seamer in this attack.

Speed and bounce are killers. Morkel will be fine.

 

[Richard]

Thank God you don't select the team then.

Have people say that from time to time. Yet I, and a good few besides on these boards, would do a far better job than all national selectors from all countries.

It was only last year that you still disputed the presence of Dale Steyn in the test team.

I did?

I said he was far from proven as a good bowler (having done little other than run through weak batting sides until the India tour recently) and was still not as good as Nel, but I think the last time I queried his selection (and that too not on CW) was May 2006. He's undoubtedly deserved to be picked on all occasions since then. And has gradually become a more and more accomplished and proven bowler.

The same may or may not happen with Morkel, but it certainly hasn't yet.

 

[Richard]

Nel bowling 145-150 kph >>>>> Nel now.

Speed is so important when combined with skill. Nel is a shadow of how he was, may now be the 4th seamer in this attack.

Really, when I've watched SA of late Nel hasn't been far below, if below at all, that sort of speed.

Speed and bounce are killers. Morkel will be fine.

Speed and bounce aren't killers in themselves, same as any other bowling skill. Morkel may indeed be fine, but he'll need more than he's currently got if so.

 

[Richard]

And he hits the seam, do you really need much more in England?

Really? Can't say I've watched too much of him, but when I have his seam-position (which is so, so crucial and so easy to get right) has been pretty poor.

If he's gotten better in that respect recently, good.

 

[Manee]

In India, I remember seeing him very the seam pretty damn straight.

 

[Richard]

He has good control of length as well. His line strays at times but his length is consistently very good, which is somewhat unusual for someone with run-up/no-ball issues.

Nel may be more skilled than Morkel, but that doesn't mean he'll be more effective at Test level. He's been decidedly disappointing in the last two years averaging over 35 with the ball - and that includes a very, very flattering 13 wickets @ 26 against the West Indies where he bowled ****. His place was deservedly questioned and he's been dropped.

As for Morkel himself, I'm also of the belief that he is being over-hyped currently and I was amazed to hear some of the things that were said about him WRT his spot in the team during him long lay off with injury, but he bowled well in India and certainly doesn't deserved to be dropped at present. You often seem to want to "right the wrongs" of selection by dropping players who think were undeservedly selected, but that would cause even more problems in most cases - you can't just drop someone because they shouldn't have been selected ITFP if they perform well in their given chance.

I didn't think Morkel bowled especially well in India at all, though, that's the thing. Otherwise of course I wouldn't say he should be left-out.

I'm aware Nel's figures have been fairly poor from 2006/07 onwards, but I'm also aware that there have been times when his figures haven't done him justice (as there was the series against WI where they flattered him, though not to the extent IMO that you seem to think). Never more so than in the home series' against Pakistan and New Zealand.

 

[Manee]

I didn't think Morkel bowled especially well in India at all, though, that's the thing.

Got a feeling the answer is yes, but did you watch him bowl much in India?

 

[Richard]

Not a hell of a lot, no. But a bit.

 

[Langeveldt]

I'd have Morkel over Nel at the moment.. Having actually watched a lot of both bowlers

 

[Manee]

Really, when I've watched SA of late Nel hasn't been far below, if below at all, that sort of speed.

I'm unsure of the context of this comment and what it replies to, but Andre Nel usually bowls the odd ball at 140kph but other than that is in the high 130s kph, from what I have seen over about the last three years.

 

[Richard]

I'd have Morkel over Nel at the moment.. Having actually watched a lot of both bowlers

Aye, I've watched a fair bit of both of 'em too. And I'd have Nel over Morne Morkel.

 

[Richard]

I'm unsure of the context of this comment and what it replies to, but Andre Nel usually bowls the odd ball at 140kph but other than that is in the high 130s kph, from what I have seen over about the last three years.

I don't generally tend to take too much notice of speeds, but I've seen him cross 140kph on plenty enough occasions for me in recent games.