• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

***Official*** New Zealand Domestic Season 2016/17

Howsie

Howsie

International Captain
SteveNZ said:
I don't want to comment on the trial, because it's not in my realm of knowledge.

But now that he's been found not guilty, and has dominated domestically this summer, I take it he'll be strongly considered with no influence from this trial?
Click to expand...
He should be called into the ODI immediately.
 
wellAlbidarned

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
hendrix said:
What?

Kuggeleijn's lawyer's angle is bloody stupid, and Kuggeleijn's response to the questions himself have been clearly dumb as hell. But just like what she was wearing is irrelevant, the "she likes penis" guy talk is also irrelevant. So neither laywer is actually attacking the crux of the issue, which still comes down to whether she consented or didn't consent during the moment.

Saying "yes" doesn't grant limitless consent, but at the same time saying "no" at one point in time doesn't mean that consent can't be granted later on.

I know the lawyer's line of reasoning is cringey but we still have to be fair here.
Click to expand...
i think she consented after being pestered over and over and until she felt unsafe in refusing. I'm all for a guy giving it more than one shot, but it doesn't sound at all like the situation. Either way the dudes a **** but I really like watching him play cricketball
 
hendrix

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
wellAlbidarned said:
i think she consented after being pestered over and over and until she felt unsafe in refusing. I'm all for a guy giving it more than one shot, but it doesn't sound at all like the situation. Either way the dudes a **** but I really like watching him play cricketball
Click to expand...
Ya'know, it may bruise the ego to hear this and consider that it may be the case with oneself, but if you have a conversation with any ***ually experienced woman you will find that the overwhelming majority of women have consented for social reasons rather than because they actually wanted to do it, at some point in their lives.

In fact, I would guess that this describes the first few times for many, many women. They have *** because their friends are doing it and they like the guy and they "don't want to be a tease". That's unfortunate. What's more unfortunate is the needless shame and guilt they may feel afterwards. Which is indeed a sad reflection on society.

It may be sobering to admit that there's a good chance a few of the women you've slept with didn't actually want to sleep with you. But it's probably true.

And it's still consent.

If I look back with an honest appraisal of a few of the women I had *** with, there was a large degree of...persistence on my part. You could call it pestering and badgering if you were feeling uncharitable, that's somewhat subjective. Never did I make these women feel unsafe as far as I'm aware.

So being truly honest with myself, I can't really judge him on that (alone, assuming consent was indeed given, and assuming he didn't make her feel unsafe).

I will say that the "she looked like she likes penis" or whatever do make him come across as a bit of a dick.
 
hendrix

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
I think for me (and probably most men) the idea that the woman having *** with me might be doing it for social reasons is a complete turn off (what's that song, "I want you to want me"?), but we gotta be real here, and not live in a fantasy porn world.

Hell, the majority of guys have had *** when they're not really feeling it, I know I have.
 
wellAlbidarned

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
hendrix said:
Ya'know, it may bruise the ego to hear this and consider that it may be the case with oneself, but if you have a conversation with any ***ually experienced woman you will find that the overwhelming majority of women have consented for social reasons rather than because they actually wanted to do it, at some point in their lives.

In fact, I would guess that this describes the first few times for many, many women. They have *** because their friends are doing it and they like the guy and they "don't want to be a tease". That's unfortunate. What's more unfortunate is the needless shame and guilt they may feel afterwards. Which is indeed a sad reflection on society.

It may be sobering to admit that there's a good chance a few of the women you've slept with didn't actually want to sleep with you. But it's probably true.

And it's still consent.

If I look back with an honest appraisal of a few of the women I had *** with, there was a large degree of...persistence on my part. You could call it pestering and badgering if you were feeling uncharitable, that's somewhat subjective. Never did I make these women feel unsafe as far as I'm aware.

So being truly honest with myself, I can't really judge him on that (alone, assuming consent was indeed given, and assuming he didn't make her feel unsafe).

I will say that the "she looked like she likes penis" or whatever do make him come across as a bit of a dick.
Click to expand...
Yeah I understand all of that, I've looked at plenty of PUA advice. It's a messy dynamic and there's no clear morally defensible line.

when she's in bed, drunk as ****, and still saying no (which both the prosecution and defence have agreed happened), that's pushing it in my book.
 
Immenso

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
Plunket Shield has resumed.

Re-appearance of Jacob Duffy.
Will be very interested to see the effects of remedial work on his action. But his opening spell too tight and no one hit a boundary off him to get in the video scorecard.

http://scoring.blackcaps.co.nz/livescoring/match4396/scorecard.aspx#video-player
 
Last edited:
hendrix

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
wellAlbidarned said:
Yeah I understand all of that, I've looked at plenty of PUA advice. It's a messy dynamic and there's no clear morally defensible line.

when she's in bed, drunk as ****, and still saying no (which both the prosecution and defence have agreed happened), that's pushing it in my book.
Click to expand...
Not sure what PUA has to do with it?

I also don't think her being drunk is relevant either, unless she was unconscious or he intentionally intoxicated her (which no one is claiming).

And as previously alluded to, her saying no once is the same as her saying yes once - it has no bearing on whether consent was given at that particular time.

I'm not a lawyer but I can't see anything other than a he said/she said case for consent presented on either side.
 
hendrix

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Well nice to see a bit more control, but it hardly looks like he's getting the ball through at any reasonable pace or zip.
 
Kippax

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah the footage from a FC match up at humid Cobham Oval almost wouldn't be complete without a pretty gentle swing bowler yorking and hitting the front boots or knocking over the stumps of ND players, would it. Whether it be Donny Grobby, Elliott or Smith.
 
Howsie

Howsie

International Captain
Classic CW. Seifert opens the batting (something he has never done at FC level) and makes 97, and not a peep. And yet if he comes in with a couple of overs left in a one day game and makes bugger all the haterz run in from everywhere.

Don't know why the kid gets zero credit on here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Top