***Official*** New Zealand Domestic Season 2014/15

[Flem274*]

ixnay on the bowling academy talk. Numerous articles on how we lost a generation of bowlers due to bad advice and yes concrete surfaces (but what else are you going to get in the winter)

I have heard a former fringe black cap talk poorly of the academy and he was lightning quick when he went into it and came out hobbled.

My understanding is that Boult and Southee are who they are today because they weren't put through an academy. And even if we only get two-three such bowlers a generation that is probably good enough for us.

since we shut the academy down we've had southee, boult, mathieson, verma, kugglejuggle, bracewell, milne, wheeler, small, henry and duffy. you'd expect to get some return from that quantity of quicks with test match potential.

 

[Blocky]

ixnay on the bowling academy talk. Numerous articles on how we lost a generation of bowlers due to bad advice and yes concrete surfaces (but what else are you going to get in the winter)

I have heard a former fringe black cap talk poorly of the academy and he was lightning quick when he went into it and came out hobbled.

My understanding is that Boult and Southee are who they are today because they weren't put through an academy. And even if we only get two-three such bowlers a generation that is probably good enough for us.

Arnel is one of the "lost" generation from the bowling academy, but that's also why I look at Pont and Dawes as being the only two at the top of my head that I'd even trust to lead an academy of fast bowlers, because they understand how to build the strength and discipline - they also know that there is no such thing as a perfect action and focus more on components of an action.

The reason Southee is so good at the moment in my view is that Donald worked extensively with him in his brief stint in NZ and took the natural gifts Southee had, polished them up and gave him game-plans he could work on. He was also given a lot of time out of international cricket to work on those things. Boult actually did a lot of work in academy, he was in the ND academy for a number of years (working with Arnel a lot) - and who says you have to keep the academy in NZ during the off season? Costs SFA to go up to Darwin and train there during winter.

 

[Blocky]

i'd be quite happy if he can do both. the best fast bowlers know when to bully and when to use skill. dale steyn is the modern master of this.

Steyn also has unbelievable control on his length and line, a skiddy action which means his bouncer can be hard to pick up and the ability to bowl within himself without just placing the ball.... again, as much as you'd love to say to a young person "Model yourself on Steyn" - that's a freakish physical specimen, it's like modelling yourself on Wasim Akram. It's a great aspiration point but there is a reason those two are all time greats.

 

[Flem274*]

Steyn also has unbelievable control on his length and line, a skiddy action which means his bouncer can be hard to pick up and the ability to bowl within himself without just placing the ball.... again, as much as you'd love to say to a young person "Model yourself on Steyn" - that's a freakish physical specimen, it's like modelling yourself on Wasim Akram. It's a great aspiration point but there is a reason those two are all time greats.

because they perfected their method.

not everyone is going to achieve what those two did by a long shot, but a young bowler can learn a lot about adaptation from steyn, skill from wasim, setting batsmen up from bond or harris and simplicity from mcgrath. it's unlikely they will be as good, but learn the lesson well and they will go places.

 

[Hurricane]

since we shut the academy down we've had southee, boult, mathieson, verma, kugglejuggle, bracewell, milne, wheeler, small, henry and duffy. you'd expect to get some return from that quantity of quicks with test match potential.

You've listed 11 men -
2 of them are among the better bowlers in the world and among the better bowlers we have ever produced at any time in our history.
Another 1 will play tests one day (henry)
Another has played tests Bracewell
And the jury is out on milne

That is 4.5 positives out of 11 - a 40% strike rate sounds impressive to me.

 

[Blocky]

You've listed 11 men -
2 of them are among the better bowlers in the world and among the better bowlers we have ever produced at any time in our history.
Another 1 will play tests one day (henry)
Another has played tests Bracewell
And the jury is out on milne

That is 4.5 positives out of 11 - a 40% strike rate sounds impressive to me.

Until you realise we're 8th in the world and at the moment have three test class bowlers (Boult, Southee, Wagner) and a tonne of players who should be test capable but aren't.

 

[Hurricane]

Until you realise we're 8th in the world and at the moment have three test class bowlers (Boult, Southee, Wagner) and a tonne of players who should be test capable but aren't.

Yeah but where is our bowling attack ranked. 4th maybe...SA, Aussie, England, Us

Perhaps it is just a population issue. Just need more fish in the barrell and less people play cricket these days.

I also think we are ranked 7th overall for tests. We would be higher if we had a spinner really. That and another opening batsmen should be our priority.

 

[Flem274*]

henry sends down test standard spells right now. he just hasn't had the chance to show it.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah but where is our bowling attack ranked. 4th maybe...SA, Aussie, England, Us

In terms of fast bowling stocks specifically I'd put New Zealand third ahead of England. I find it hard to split Anderson/Broad and Boult/Southee as opening combinations, but as much as I'm not really a Wagner fan, England have had great touble filling the first change spot for a while now.

 

[hendrix]

I'm not knowledgeable enough to have any real authority on this but it seems that the step-down tier on the English scene is not stronger than ours, and may even be weaker. South Africa have Abbott and Langevaldt who are probably a step ahead of Henry and Bracewell in terms of being able to step into a Test attack.

Australia have Pattinson and Bird who are probably the closest of the lot as well as Starc, Cummins and Hilf but it does seem that even for the Aussies there is a clear pyramid.

 

[Prince EWS]

Langevaldt? Wut?

 

[ohnoitsyou]

England is confuddled by the use of the Duke, its really hard to tell just how good the bowlers are when Jesse Ryder opens the bowling.

 

[hendrix]

Langevaldt? Wut?

yeah I have no idea, but please comment

 

[Dan]

Assuming by Langeveldt he means de Lange, tbh. Throw in Beuran Hendricks and SA does look extremely strong in terms of fringe quicks.

 

[Prince EWS]

yeah I have no idea, but please comment

Assuming by Langeveldt he means de Lange, tbh. Throw in Beuran Hendricks and SA does look extremely strong in terms of fringe quicks.

I had three possibilities in mind for who he meant.

Merchant de Lange - tall, express, but rarely properly fit and struggles to make his franchise side at times even when he is.
Charl Langeveldt - a 39 year old outswing bowler who hasn't played a Test since 2006 but still kicks around in the Cobras T20 side.
Rory Kleinveldt - a fringe bowler who has played a few games for SA across all formats; decent backup but generally pretty average.

Could've been any of them, but none really inspire great faith in South Africa's bowling depth.

Abbott and Hendricks are serious bowlers though. With more Test experience I could definitely see them approaching Southee/Boult levels, so the overall point about South Africa's bowling depth was spot on IMO even if hendrix didn't know their names.

 

[hendrix]

haha yes it was de Lange I was thinking of.

Never heard of Hendricks but I'm pretty confident that he'll burst onto the scene this year, have a spectacular 4 year career in which he revolutionises bowling and the sport of cricket forever, and then die tragically at the age of 27.

 

[Kippax]

Pretty disgusted that Dan has adopted ND, after all he's been told.

Also disgusted that I checked the weather at the last minute and tipped a draw in Napier, after publicly declaring on here Otago's batting was going to shunt it.

 

[Kippax]

Everyone to edit their profiles into a fake contestant name btw. I won't have to be so tricky with the snipping tool once you've done that.

 

[Dan]

Wouldn't have cared tbh, but I've changed it anyway. Nice terrible start from me, tbh. CD winning by an innings -- wut.

 

[Kippax]

You're tied with Sinclair ftr. Tough round obvs.