***Official*** India in South Africa

[Dravid]

Lol another troll?

 

[TT Boy]

Lol another troll?

Quality post IMO.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Greater price on his wicket? Terminology quite inapproprtiate for Laxman nowadays seeing as he bats as defensively as he's ever done.

He just needs to start scoring runs, he's putting a price on his wicket because all series he never got out to a horrible shot, but he's just not scoring enough.

And? Daren Ganga used to bat for days, not score runs and then get out to balls he shouldn't be getting out to. And not to horrible shots either. Laxman appears to be in the same gear right now. A tailender batting defensively for long periods and not scoring runs - that's a tailender putting a good price on his wicket. For a middle order batsman, it's more than just batting time. He has to score runs too.

Laxman gets too many starts these days. Too few scores.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Lol another troll?

He makes some good points, actually. Simply because he's slamming India doesn't make him a troll. Contructive criticism. He seems to have India's best interests at heart.

 

[Langeveldt]

Yeah if thats a troll, can we have more trolls please?

 

[pasag]

Haha quality first post. Don't agree with much of it though.

 

[silentstriker]

Yet another humiliating defeat overseas. India are the whipping-boy of international cricket: lame-duck captain and abysmal fielding and batting.

Agreed on the latter two, though I am not sure about the lame duck captain tag. It was another humiliating defeat for India overseas, yet here is an insteresting stat for you. Out of 112 Test matches that Kumble has played, how many has he won outside the subcontinent? The answer (discounting ZIM) is four. Four, out of 112. This is not some new low for Indian cricket, its a bottom that India has been scraping for decades now. If anything a lone 'freak' victory is a step up.

The bowling, at times disciplined, was still nowhere as good as say the Aussie, SA, Pak or even the English and SL attack. I'd say the Indian bowling right now is on the level of WI or maybe Bangladesh: no bowler capable of bowling consistently over 135kmph. I shudder to think what Australia would've done to India in these conditions.

Indian bowling has always been a weakness, particularly the fast bowling attack. If you look at the last test match, the Indian bowlers were reversing the ball a long way, but that doesn't really mean anything if you don't have the pace to back it up. If we had someone who could reverse the ball at 145kph, instead of 130, it would be a huge boon for the attack. Unfortunately, I don't see that person anywhere.

People have been saying "well, at least it wasn't as bad as England's debacle during the Ashes". However, I'd say that it was even worse, because of the rank inability of the Indians to learn from their mistakes - or even in fact admit that there were any.

Well, if we were playing Australia with the batting being the state it is, we would have been thumped worse than England was, no doubt about that.

Look at the English press, and the former captains - they've been scathing of the performance, and there's been a lot of talk of owning up, of being accountable, of heads rolling. Among the Indians, however, people like Ravi Shastri are not even willing to admit that changes need to be made, that there needs to be a re-haul of the way domestic cricket is played, etc.

The problem with Indian cricket is that there is no vision from the top level. ECB comes up with a plan in 2001 to make English cricket the best by 2007, and though they did not succeed, plans were put in and steps were taken towards that goal. And they are still the second best team in the world, a far cry from their low point in the late nineties.

The BCCI's vision is to make more money, and once thats achieved, to make even more money. Where is a statement of vision with clear steps outlined to improve the domestic game, bring more talent forward, add coaching and other qualified persons from the lowerst level upward?

No one is willing to stand up and say "look, the fielding is disastrous, and most of the team is mentally weak. They have zero fitness and absolutely no desire to win".

The desire may be there, but if they don't put in the work to get fit and focus on things like fielding, we'll always be in the dark ages.

I admire England's unwillingness to bury its head in the sand - that is the FIRST STEP in improvement.

Agreed, but then the ECB has always been better run (even during their bad days) than the BCCI ever has, or ever will.

Good first post, welcome to the forums .

 

[silentstriker]

Lol another troll?

....? No.

 

[JustTool]

More like 6+ years of rubbish.....amazing. So tired of injury excuses - show some class and retire then. Oh, the money...

DROP TENDULKAR ! NOW !!

Closer to 4 years of relative rubbish to be honest.

 

[JustTool]

Injuries...excuses. RETIRE then...show some class. NEVER HAS TEnDULKAR scored in th 4innings under pressure. never ever !!

You can't call 2004 rubbish, you can call it very inconsistent, but that's like calling some of Lara's years in the late 90s rubbish.

2003 was due to injuries IMO, its the last two years which are really worrying.

 

[JustTool]

Good summary ! Agreed 100% Just look at the sycophants on this forum. amazing - our capacity to not only digest, but defend and applaud MEDICORITY ! For starters:

drop tendulkar !! NOW !

Yet another humiliating defeat overseas. India are the whipping-boy of international cricket: lame-duck captain and abysmal fielding and batting. The bowling, at times disciplined, was still nowhere as good as say the Aussie, SA, Pak or even the English and SL attack. I'd say the Indian bowling right now is on the level of WI or maybe Bangladesh: no bowler capable of bowling consistently over 135kmph. I shudder to think what Australia would've done to India in these conditions.

People have been saying "well, at least it wasn't as bad as England's debacle during the Ashes". However, I'd say that it was even worse, because of the rank inability of the Indians to learn from their mistakes - or even in fact admit that there were any.

Look at the English press, and the former captains - they've been scathing of the performance, and there's been a lot of talk of owning up, of being accountable, of heads rolling. Among the Indians, however, people like Ravi Shastri are not even willing to admit that changes need to be made, that there needs to be a re-haul of the way domestic cricket is played, etc. All of the former players seem very reluctant to honestly put down their opinion of a series that has - except for the one game which was won because SA batters chose to commit suicide because of complacency - been an unmitigated disaster. Shastri keeps saying "I like the intent, I think it's a positive move" about the smallest issues and all the Indian reports keep talking about how SA should be scared etc etc just before the match. No one is willing to stand up and say "look, the fielding is disastrous, and most of the team is mentally weak. They have zero fitness and absolutely no desire to win".

Compared to England's performance, India's was arguably much worse. Yet they're still celebrating that one freak win and talking about the positives that should be taken from the tournament. There's no sense of accountability and absolutely no willingness to face that fact that the players constantly crumble under pressure. There is no demand for an explanation of how they batted during the 4th day. England's team has been FORCED into making changes - India's, because of its meek press and meek ex-players who don't want to tell it like it is and don't want to offend anyone, will continue to rest easy and suffer more humiliating defeats. For a country with a population greater than that of all the other cricket-playing nations put together, it is absolutely incredible that they can't field 11 men who are capable of simple, high-school level fielding. Monty Panesar was repeatedly singled out for his poor fielding and he knew that he'd have no chance unless he improved it. The results are there to see. Munaf Patel? Not a word's been said about him - then again, a large part of the team is at the same level.

I admire England's unwillingness to bury its head in the sand - that is the FIRST STEP in improvement.

Any thoughts?

 

[JustTool]

Lol another troll?

You are the fool !! Not him.

 

[pasag]

Haha, now this is a troll, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

NEVER HAS TEnDULKAR scored in th 4innings under pressure. never ever !!

What does that have to do with anything?

Besides...

1990 - 119 not out v England
India chasing 409 to win and Tendulkar entered at number 6 with the score 109-4. It was quickly 127-5 when Azharuddin went and 183-6 when Kapil Dev was out. India finished on 343-6 to draw the match.

1999 - 136 v Pakistan
India chasing 271 to win. Tendulkar entered at number 4 at the fall of Laxman. The score was 6-2. Only Nayan Mongia got to double figures other than Tendulkar, and he scored 52. Tendulkar was 7th out and go India to within 17 runs of victory, scoring more than half of their eventual score of 258 all out.

Twice > never.

 

[Goughy]

Quality post IMO.

Agreed. Obviously passionate but made some good points

 

[howardj]

Hats off to Jacques.

Showed his class.

 

[Evermind]

Thanks for the welcome people. After the BBC shut down its TMS forums, there's just the crappy 606 left, and there's pretty much no action there.

As for Tendulkar, I agree that he's been woeful lately. But if India drop him, who do they have? Who's gonna bat, build an innings with Dravid: Sehwag? Dhoni? Kaif? Don't make me laugh. Dhoni does his job, but Sehwag is WAY WAY WAY past his expiry date. His body language, his performance, his attitude...everything's screaming for a drop. He's become the Afridi of India: 1 good innings to 25 failures. At least with Tendulkar, you know that he was world class and that he's obviously TRYING. I could see that it was painful to him, that batting performance, he was trying his best to hang in there, he was not happy with what he was doing. But Sehwag didn't even bother - Boycott's mum could've shown more application. I'd say give Tendulkar a few more chances, see if he comes good - at least till the team has more dependable youngsters to carry the mantle.

I'm just upset because it's the first time I've watched cricket since the 2003 world cup (yeah, it's been that long) and I'm paying premium money per month to subscribe to the cricket channel in this country, and supporting India for this series and England for the Ashes hasn't exactly made the sun shine brighter. The last time I got real disgusted with India's suicidal "We'll bowl first at the world cup final cause we're the best team on earth to deal with pressure, especially while chasing, go punter let's see what you can do...................ARG 359 MOMMY HELP PLS". Good to know that nothing has changed.

As for India bowling better than England during the Ashes...are we watching the same series, man? Panesar was on the money most of the time, and Hoggard was bowling better than any Indian seamer has since Kapil Dev (please don't bring up Javagal-"I'm still bowling too short, about 8 years into my career"-Srinath). The fact is that Australia are just that good a team. England's cricket was on par with SA's, I'd say, during this series. I think those two teams are about level.

What I don't understand is how the PCB - about as corrupt and incompetent as the BCCI - still manages to get some pace bowling talent in. Sri Lanka have some excellent pace bowlers coming up - and they're quick! What's wrong with India?

 

[silentstriker]

What I don't understand is how the PCB - about as corrupt and incompetent as the BCCI - still manages to get some pace bowling talent in. Sri Lanka have some excellent pace bowlers coming up - and they're quick! What's wrong with India?

Its the physiology too. Its harder to find tall well built people in India than it is in many other countries, including Pakistan Punjab. As SJS mentioned in another thread, every Pakistani fast bowler to have taken over 100 test wickets has been from the same area.

We need to work harder than they do, to find the same talent.

 

[JustTool]

Defense presages disaster: 'The fourth wicket stand in the second innings of the third Test between Tendulkar and Dravid produced 24 runs in 15 overs, to which Tendulkar contributed 9 in 45 balls'

 

[JustTool]

Twice in 20 years. And once it was '52' I rest my case...

What does that have to do with anything?

Besides...

1990 - 119 not out v England
India chasing 409 to win and Tendulkar entered at number 6 with the score 109-4. It was quickly 127-5 when Azharuddin went and 183-6 when Kapil Dev was out. India finished on 343-6 to draw the match.

1999 - 136 v Pakistan
India chasing 271 to win. Tendulkar entered at number 4 at the fall of Laxman. The score was 6-2. Only Nayan Mongia got to double figures other than Tendulkar, and he scored 52. Tendulkar was 7th out and go India to within 17 runs of victory, scoring more than half of their eventual score of 258 all out.

Twice > never.