*Official* Australia tour of New Zealand Feb-Mar 2024

[The Hutt Rec]

Does this sort of thing get discussed by the general public or is it just us that know or care?

I certainly see it mentioned on social media comments every time he is selected for NZ. There was the outrage a few months ago when Northern Districts wanted to offer a shirt signed by him as a prize.

Probably worth remembering too that the first trial produced a hung jury.

After which the judge apologised to HIM for having to go through it again, IIRC!

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I don’t think there can be restorative actions without legal implications. I hope my point is clear. I speculate that NzC would have taken legal counsel on this.
Finally if he did donate 20 000 to the women’s refuge he can’t publicise that anyway or it would be revolting: Like he tried to buy public goodwill

I don't think it's really necessary to speculate about hypothetical possibilities that he might have possibly maybe have done to make him less look of a **** when he admitted to what he admitted. No amount of hypotheticals can offset the facts.

 

[Hurricane2]

I don't think it's really necessary to speculate about hypothetical possibilities that he might have possibly maybe have done to make him less look of a **** when he admitted to what he admitted. No amount of hypotheticals can offset the facts.

But more was he supposed to do?
He confessed ?
He made an egregious mistake based on lust
He probably hates himself for doing it and spent years every day regretting it
Surely he us allowed a chance at redemption

once he made the mistake the elders in the family would have circled the wagons around him and hired the best lawyer possible and told Scott to follow the lawyers instructions

By the way my hypothetical was not to suggest he might have secretly attempted a donation I was just pointing out such a donation would be impractical and seen as an insult by the women’s refuge and they world have rejected it probably

My main point is that he did something awful and unacceptable but after he did it the correct judicial process was followed and we should accept that outcome.
Anything else gets into sanctions that should not be part of a society based on law and order
We must trust the judicial process and accept its decisions. Subjecting Scott to the extreme censure he is getting ion this message board in the last 4 hours is holding him to account for a judicial outcome you do h approve of and that is not fair on him and creates a society that is scary for everyone to live in. Is this point clear ?
If it makes you feel any better if you want consequences for him please know that he is a human being and his conscience will have given him much castigation over the last ten years and he has also had public ridicule to put up with.

 

[Athlai]

Rubbish. He is a public figure and role model. We can expect better.

 

[honestbharani]

I think its fair to say its a bit understandable a person like him could have behaved like that coz of the way society has been towards women for a long time, including his growing years. He should have apologized, admitted to the mistakes he did list in his trial, whether he was found legally guilty or not, and NZC should have worked with him to have him do some sort of act(s) of contrition and show to the world he really does feel bad for what he did and wants to be a better person going forward.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

But more was he supposed to do?
He confessed ?

If he confessed, he served no punishment and dragged the woman's reputation through the mud. Your "probablys" amount to nothing when he has shown zero contrition at all. I accept the judicial decision regarding the rape, however, what he admitted to in court is low and he has shown no flash of conscience. All of that is speculation. If he had a conscience, then the events of the case at the time and immediately afterwards would have played out quite differently.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

But more was he supposed to do?
He confessed ?
He made an egregious mistake based on lust
He probably hates himself for doing it and spent years every day regretting it
Surely he us allowed a chance at redemption

once he made the mistake the elders in the family would have circled the wagons around him and hired the best lawyer possible and told Scott to follow the lawyers instructions

By the way my hypothetical was not to suggest he might have secretly attempted a donation I was just pointing out such a donation would be impractical and seen as an insult by the women’s refuge and they world have rejected it probably

My main point is that he did something awful and unacceptable but after he did it the correct judicial process was followed and we should accept that outcome.
Anything else gets into sanctions that should not be part of a society based on law and order
We must trust the judicial process and accept its decisions. Subjecting Scott to the extreme censure he is getting ion this message board in the last 4 hours is holding him to account for a judicial outcome you do h approve of and that is not fair on him and creates a society that is scary for everyone to live in. Is this point clear ?
If it makes you feel any better if you want consequences for him please know that he is a human being and his conscience will have given him much castigation over the last ten years and he has also had public ridicule to put up with.

You're arguing from a legal perspective but most of us are arguing from a moral one.

 

[Shady Slim]

But more was he supposed to do?
He confessed ?
He made an egregious mistake based on lust
He probably hates himself for doing it and spent years every day regretting it
Surely he us allowed a chance at redemption

once he made the mistake the elders in the family would have circled the wagons around him and hired the best lawyer possible and told Scott to follow the lawyers instructions

By the way my hypothetical was not to suggest he might have secretly attempted a donation I was just pointing out such a donation would be impractical and seen as an insult by the women’s refuge and they world have rejected it probably

My main point is that he did something awful and unacceptable but after he did it the correct judicial process was followed and we should accept that outcome.
Anything else gets into sanctions that should not be part of a society based on law and order
We must trust the judicial process and accept its decisions. Subjecting Scott to the extreme censure he is getting ion this message board in the last 4 hours is holding him to account for a judicial outcome you do h approve of and that is not fair on him and creates a society that is scary for everyone to live in. Is this point clear ?
If it makes you feel any better if you want consequences for him please know that he is a human being and his conscience will have given him much castigation over the last ten years and he has also had public ridicule to put up with.

with respect, there is an important difference between the judicial process and the court of public opinion for a reason

a finding of guilt by the judicial process requires a jury to find a person guilty beyond a reasonable doubt because such a finding opens the door to punishments from the state up to and including incarceration. a verdict of not guilty doesn't mean a person didn't do it, nor does the acceptance of a jury's verdict mean that private citizens doing anything other than treating him as exonerated is "holding him to account for a judicial verdict we don't approve of" or creating a "society that is scary for everyone to live in". there is a reason the verdict is one of not guilty and not one of innocent and it's an important one

 

[RMBolton]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Kuggeleijn being selected. I saw it coming the moment KJ got injured.

Wells mentioned his stuff for NZ A where he completely wrecked them - combine that with being the top wicket taker of PS (which I still don't understand, considering he couldn't buy a wicket for at least 4 seasons) & here we are. Just wish it was someone else who wrecked Aus A in QLD last year.

 

[Socerer 01]

But more was he supposed to do?
He confessed ?
He made an egregious mistake based on lust
He probably hates himself for doing it and spent years every day regretting it
Surely he us allowed a chance at redemption

once he made the mistake the elders in the family would have circled the wagons around him and hired the best lawyer possible and told Scott to follow the lawyers instructions

By the way my hypothetical was not to suggest he might have secretly attempted a donation I was just pointing out such a donation would be impractical and seen as an insult by the women’s refuge and they world have rejected it probably

My main point is that he did something awful and unacceptable but after he did it the correct judicial process was followed and we should accept that outcome.
Anything else gets into sanctions that should not be part of a society based on law and order
We must trust the judicial process and accept its decisions. Subjecting Scott to the extreme censure he is getting ion this message board in the last 4 hours is holding him to account for a judicial outcome you do h approve of and that is not fair on him and creates a society that is scary for everyone to live in. Is this point clear ?
If it makes you feel any better if you want consequences for him please know that he is a human being and his conscience will have given him much castigation over the last ten years and he has also had public ridicule to put up with.

you must be the type of dude who also thinks Mason Greenwood only made an egregious decision based on lust and is redeeming himself

 

[Bahnz]

I really hate what the forum devolves into every time kugz is picked. Probably not as much as his alleged victim hates seeing his face in the papers when it happens though.

 

[Hurricane2]

If he confessed, he served no punishment and dragged the woman's reputation through the mud. Your "probablys" amount to nothing when he has shown zero contrition at all. I accept the judicial decision regarding the rape, however, what he admitted to in court is low and he has shown no flash of conscience. All of that is speculation. If he had a conscience, then the events of the case at the time and immediately afterwards would have played out quite differently.

I was mad for years at a bowler in my grade who bowled a bouncer and killed a 19 year old.
I was mad at him for playing the next week and playing for the rest of the season.
I thought he had no heart and that I in the same circumstances would have been to shattered to play cricket for many years afterwards

I told that story here on CW and a poster called Dan took an interest in the story
The next day he posted an article from the Sydney Morning herald amazingly it was an interview of the bowler ten years after the event
He said that for years after he killed the boy he had woken up in the middle of the night gasping for breath having nightmares about killing the boy.

it really effected me
I had played against the boys team the week after it happened and he had a twin brother. I was an opening batsman and after we had a minutes silence they gave the new ball to the twin to bowl to me. He was a useless bowler. But I let him bowl me a maiden when I could have smacked every ball for four. Then I am ashamed to say I shrugged at the captain indicating you can’t bowl him all day to us so he took him off then I got out first pill to his replacement
Two weeks later we played the Australian bowler and I hated him as I had seen the rough shape the twin was in. Threw him dagger looks whenever he looked my way.
I can’t remember if I shook his hand after the game or not.
His lack of remorse by playing on was unacceptable to me

When I read the article ten years later I was deeply moved. The bowler had been remorseful and had been waking up in the middle of the night over it apparently.

I was possibly the most interested reader in the world of that article

I learned that everyone feels remorse and guilt even if it hits 6 months to a year later like it did to the bowler in my story

Based on my years of being alive and with that life story I am confident Scott feels terrible

I could be the wrong though and yes I am just speculating

 

[Hurricane2]

you must be the type of dude who also thinks Mason Greenwood only made an egregious decision based on lust and is redeeming himself

Get lost

 

[Athlai]

I really hate what the forum devolves into every time kugz is picked. Probably not as much as his alleged victim hates seeing his face in the papers when it happens though.

I really hate that NZC fills me with such shame

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

I don't think you can really compare bowling a bouncer to ***ually assaulting someone.

 

[_Ed_]

I don't think you can really compare bowling a bouncer to ***ually assaulting someone.

And then subjecting them to victim-blaming humiliation in court.

 

[Socerer 01]

I was mad for years at a bowler in my grade who bowled a bouncer and killed a 19 year old.
I was mad at him for playing the next week and playing for the rest of the season.
I thought he had no heart and that I in the same circumstances would have been to shattered to play cricket for many years afterwards

I told that story here on CW and a poster called Dan took an interest in the story
The next day he posted an article from the Sydney Morning herald amazingly it was an interview of the bowler ten years after the event
He said that for years after he killed the boy he had woken up in the middle of the night gasping for breath having nightmares about killing the boy.

it really effected me
I had played against the boys team the week after it happened and he had a twin brother. I was an opening batsman and after we had a minutes silence they gave the new ball to the twin to bowl to me. He was a useless bowler. But I let him bowl me a maiden when I could have smacked every ball for four. Then I am ashamed to say I shrugged at the captain indicating you can’t bowl him all day to us so he took him off then I got out first pill to his replacement
Two weeks later we played the Australian bowler and I hated him as I had seen the rough shape the twin was in. Threw him dagger looks whenever he looked my way.
I can’t remember if I shook his hand after the game or not.
His lack of remorse by playing on was unacceptable to me

When I read the article ten years later I was deeply moved. The bowler had been remorseful and had been waking up in the middle of the night over it apparently.

I was possibly the most interested reader in the world of that article

I learned that everyone feels remorse and guilt even if it hits 6 months to a year later like it did to the bowler in my story

Based on my years of being alive and with that life story I am confident Scott feels terrible

I could be the wrong though and yes I am just speculating

you’re comparing an accident in which the individual had no control to someone forcing themselves on another person and you’re trying to make it relatable by offering your teenage emotional viewpoint

seriously wtf is wrong with you dude

 

[Flem274*]

I was mad for years at a bowler in my grade who bowled a bouncer and killed a 19 year old.
I was mad at him for playing the next week and playing for the rest of the season.
I thought he had no heart and that I in the same circumstances would have been to shattered to play cricket for many years afterwards

I told that story here on CW and a poster called Dan took an interest in the story
The next day he posted an article from the Sydney Morning herald amazingly it was an interview of the bowler ten years after the event
He said that for years after he killed the boy he had woken up in the middle of the night gasping for breath having nightmares about killing the boy.

it really effected me
I had played against the boys team the week after it happened and he had a twin brother. I was an opening batsman and after we had a minutes silence they gave the new ball to the twin to bowl to me. He was a useless bowler. But I let him bowl me a maiden when I could have smacked every ball for four. Then I am ashamed to say I shrugged at the captain indicating you can’t bowl him all day to us so he took him off then I got out first pill to his replacement
Two weeks later we played the Australian bowler and I hated him as I had seen the rough shape the twin was in. Threw him dagger looks whenever he looked my way.
I can’t remember if I shook his hand after the game or not.
His lack of remorse by playing on was unacceptable to me

When I read the article ten years later I was deeply moved. The bowler had been remorseful and had been waking up in the middle of the night over it apparently.

I was possibly the most interested reader in the world of that article

I learned that everyone feels remorse and guilt even if it hits 6 months to a year later like it did to the bowler in my story

Based on my years of being alive and with that life story I am confident Scott feels terrible

I could be the wrong though and yes I am just speculating

One was a horrible accident, the other was not guilty.

Look, I don't wish death or eternal misery upon the guy. That won't solve any systemic issues. It's easy to hate a monster, but most men aren't monsters and hate doesn't build a better man from one who committed an evil action.

I just wish the guy, regardless of court decisions, showed NZ supporters he was building himself into a better man. He has a public job, so his character is of public interest if the character issue is serious (I don't care about all the small scale bull**** we're meant to get mad at public figures for).

More women than ever enjoy cricket. This is an issue NZC needed to ensure was addressed properly, but David White has shown us his own scruples often and early.

There has been no justice here.

 

[Flem274*]

And then subjecting them to victim-blaming humiliation in court.

Yeah that really swung it for me. I don't know if youre allowed to limit your lawyer, but I would look more favorably on any accused who told their lawyer not to go down the slut dress lines (and throw the book at the rest if guilty).

 

[Socerer 01]

One was a horrible accident, the other was not guilty.

Look, I don't wish death or eternal misery upon the guy. That won't solve any systemic issues. It's easy to hate a monster, but most men aren't monsters and hate doesn't build a better man from one who committed an evil action.

I just wish the guy, regardless of court decisions, showed NZ supporters he was building himself into a better man. He has a public job, so his character is of public interest if the character issue is serious (I don't care about all the small scale bull**** we're meant to get mad at public figures for).

More women than ever enjoy cricket. This is an issue NZC needed to ensure was addressed properly, but David White has shown us his own scruples often and early.

There has been no justice here.

even by op’s own story the dude who was involved in that accident showed remorse and regret for something he had no control over in a paper while Mr K has not expressed any form of regret publicly has he