New Zealand All Time Team - Open Voting

[Coronis]

Bond and Cowie.

 

[kyear2]

Cowie
Bond

That really is quite a weird little selection of bowlers from cricinfo. Taylor? Cameron? I'm going to assume Chris Cairns is in the allrounder category otherwise...

Morrison and Marto shouldn't be on that list. Nice to see Dick Motz wasn't forgotten. Chatfield was a gun foil for Hadlee and a great character of the game but I'm not sure he's a top eight bowler for us.

Heef to castigate me.

edit: actually I hope we are able to pick both Cairns and J.R. Reid in this exercise (cricinfo didn't allow it iirc). I don't think we should be forced to pick a spinner either. It would be like requiring India to pick 3 or 4 quicks when their strength lies in all their spin options.

Not trying to criticise kyear, just hoping there is a bit of room to play with the structure.

Totally open format. Demorcracy rules.

 

[Dan]

Cowie and Bond

 

[Mike5181]

Cowie and Bond

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Jack Cowie and Chris Cairns

awta

The way i see it between Cowie and Hadlee an NZ ATG have the strike bowling to decimate most sides. What they would struggle with is batting, and Cairns in at 8, would add that, while still having a decent bowling option.

 

[Mike5181]

Cairns is a 40+ bowler at this level tbh. Hadlee/Cowie/Bond is a must, especially if Vettori/Reid is part of your attack. Neither were big wicket takers.

 

[Jezroy]

Cowie and Bond. Cairns will be the all rounder.

 

[NUFAN]

Bond and Cowie.

I think Southee has already done enough to be on an extended short list (if there is ever such a thing as a long short list).

 

[watson]

awta

The way i see it between Cowie and Hadlee an NZ ATG have the strike bowling to decimate most sides. What they would struggle with is batting, and Cairns in at 8, would add that, while still having a decent bowling option.

If we assume that the NZ ATG team will be up against other ATG teams then I think its best option is to stack the bowling and fight fire with fire because the NZ batting line-up is unlikely to win a war of attrition against the major teams like the West Indies.

So I guess I disagree, Cowie and Hadlee does not give the bowling enough 'fire-power' to knock over a middle-order made up of Headley/Richards/Lara/Sobers quick enough so as to win a Test match. The attack needs Bond in there as well to maintain the pressure.

 

[Bahnz]

Bond and Cowie.

I think Southee has already done enough to be on an extended short list (if there is ever such a thing as a long short list).

Nah, 80 wickets at 34 shouldn't get him close tbh (and yes I know, Morisson was included in Cricinfo's list, but that was ridiculous). He's only been awesome for 8 matches. Needs at least twice that many before he deserves consideration. For all we know he'll come back next season against the Windies and India and start slinging down rubbish again.

 

[Flametree]

Bowie and Cond.

Agree that the list is odd. Cameron, Nash, Doull should be there ahead of Martin and Morrison. Gavin Larsen presumably will make the allrounders list?

 

[Flem274*]

Pretty sure cricinfo allowed only one allrounder and the options were Reid, Cairns, Taylor, Oram and Coney.

It was pretty dubious. I'd include two of the above in the side and would consider Bruce Taylor for his bowling alone.

It also meant the keeper had to bat at seven so McCullum was the obvious choice since he's the best batsman of our best keepers by a distance. If you wanted to go with Smith, Parore or Wadsworth you couldn't hide them at eight or nine.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Cairns is a 40+ bowler at this level tbh. Hadlee/Cowie/Bond is a must, especially if Vettori/Reid is part of your attack. Neither were big wicket takers.

??? a 40+ bowler

Cairns averaged 29 with the ball and went at 26 for the last 50 tests (after going at 42/43 for the first 12) - unfortunate he only played 62 tests, but was actually a pretty decent bowler at test level (odi is another story), and mainly considered himself a bowler who batted. He was actually a better bowler than the most recent addition to the 300 club who is regarded in some (English) circles as a great. If he had been injury free he could've joined Kapil as the only one in the 5,000 run/400 wicket club and been right at the top of the 2nd tier of ATG allrounders (behind the top tier - Sobers, Kallis, Imran, Miller). That said he'd still only be my 4th bowler (with Vettori as the 5th) and called on to score impt. runs at 7. John Reid would unfortunately miss out.

 

[Mike5181]

This is ATG level, not test level. He wouldn't average 29 with the ball against greats. He's in my team as an allrounder, but he's not nearly good enough to be the third bowler, especially when you have guys like Bond in the mix.

 

[Jezroy]

This is ATG level, not test level. He wouldn't average 29 with the ball against greats. He's in my team as an allrounder, but he's not nearly good enough to be the third bowler, especially when you have guys like Bond in the mix.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... The best I saw Cairns bowl was in England in 1999, then the series after vs WI. Against Australia in 2000, he was good as well. I remember in Hamilton he had a knee injury, but was bowling well in that series against a brilliant team - yet averaged around 38 with the ball in the series! Langer was on fire in that series.

EDIT - Fair enough though - he would NOT be the 3rd best NZ best bowler of all time.

 

[Mike5181]

Cairns was genuinely world class from 99-04, which was basically all I saw of him. So you can imagine I have a high opinion of the guy, definitely one of my favourite players as a kid.

 

[Days of Grace]

Cowie and Bond, for me.

 

[NUFAN]

Nah, 80 wickets at 34 shouldn't get him close tbh (and yes I know, Morisson was included in Cricinfo's list, but that was ridiculous). He's only been awesome for 8 matches. Needs at least twice that many before he deserves consideration. For all we know he'll come back next season against the Windies and India and start slinging down rubbish again.

Well I did say extended shortlist and the number of matches he's played is similar to Bond and Motz. Southee appears to be a better bowler than what his career average suggests, I think its obvious that he's improved in the last couple of years.

 

[Smudge]

Paul Wiseman, Chris Kuggeleijn & Kane Williamson.

Disturbing lack of love for Bradburn, B. Walker, Greg Loveridge and Vaughn Brown IMO.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Disturbing lack of love for Bradburn, B. Walker, Greg Loveridge and Vaughn Brown IMO.

So many options, so few spaces for a spinner slow bowler in the XI.