Murali's Record

[Richard]

Warne ****s on Donald

You're dead to me Augustus.










Oh all right then...

How is Walsh honestly going to go down as a better bowler than Warne and Murali Richard?

Because he bowled better, simple as. He could turn any conditions to his hand, as could Warne and Murali, and no-one walked down the pitch to Walsh and smacked him over his head, as they did Warne and Murali (though not all that often).

Seriously, though... I just cannot believe anyone would honestly say Warne > Donald. I just cannot fathom any reasoning behind such a rating.

 

[Richard]

Rich, you're taking the piss here aren't you mate? You genuinely believe that each and every one of the bowlers you list there should be considered better than both Warne and Murali?

Ian Bishop is the first (though not the only) name to leap out of that list at me - I'm not questioning the man's talent, nor the fact that his succession of injuries robbed him of a long and potentially great career. But for such a vocal proponent as yourself of the thinking that a player should be judged on what he achieved and produced rather than what he could have/should have/might have done had circumstances not been different, I find it more than a little strange that you could then claim him to be better than the two great spinners.

Bishop had enough of a career, for mine, to be better than Warne or Murali have ever been, TBH.

And had he not had the injury problems, it's very conceivable he'd be up there with Marshall and Ambrose as the best West Indian seamer ever.

 

[Richard]

Certainly comparable bowlers statistically. But can they bowl 30 over spells?

...Thought so.

Who needs to bowl 30-over spells if you've knocked a team over before the second new ball's due?

 

[Fiery]

Bishop had enough of a career, for mine, to be better than Warne or Murali have ever been, TBH.

Oh dear

 

[Richard]

Noh dear.

 

[Fiery]

oh dear oh dear. You've had some howlers Rich but that's gotta take the cake

 

[Richard]

"Scientific testing poppycock" is significantly worse than anything I've said I'm afraid, so I really do wish you'd stop going-on about that.

 

[Fiery]

"Scientific testing poppycock" is significantly worse than anything I've said I'm afraid, so I really do wish you'd stop going-on about that.

about what? I've made 2 posts here.

Just wonder why you feel the need to post ideas like Bishop > Warne or Murali, when surely you don't really believe that. Are you flaming?

 

[Richard]

No, I'm responding to

You've had some howlers Rich but that's gotta take the cake

which is not the first time you've said something along those lines.

It gets irritating when someone says that more than once when they've said something far worse.

 

[Fiery]

No, I'm responding to which is not the first time you've said something along those lines.

It gets irritating when someone says that more than once when they've said something far worse.

Well stop making stupid posts then

 

[BhupinderSingh]

Can you show any documented evidence of Lillee refusing to tour subcontinent by giving lame excuses ?

I am sorry but I have to ask this because I have heard it everytime Lillee is discussed but never have I read or seen anything that supports this claim.

He was always "injured" whenever a tour of India came up.I remember someone mentioned the years in which he didn't tour subcontinent because of "injuries" & personal issues in "How good a bowler was Dennis Lillee?" thread.In his whole career,he toured Pakistan & Sri Lanka only once & never toured India which means he was afraid to bowl there because of extremly unfriendly conditions for fast bowling.

 

[Richard]

TBH, I'd heard stories like that but when I actually looked the matter up I found there was only one tour of Pakistan played during his career which he was available for selection for (ie, not when he'd decided WSC was more important - which was his fault, of course, but still not chickening-out as such) which he actually missed, and we have reliable information that he genuinely was injured.

So maybe those tales, while still having something in them as I said in that thread, aren't quite what they seem.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

He was always "injured" whenever a tour of India came up.

It's a nice myth to perpetuate, but considering the only Australian tour of India during his career was 1979/80 and none of the Packer players went on it, it doesn't carry much weight.

 

[The Sean]

Is this way of thinking – that Lillee deliberately avoided and refused to tour the subcontinent – common amongst Asian cricket fans? I’ve met or read the thoughts of a number, both in person and online, who feel this way and while I don’t know where it has come from it would go a long way toward explaining many Asian cricket fans’ Lillee stance if it’s what they are brought up believing.

The facts, as I understand it, are these:

- Australia toured India just once during DKL’s career and it was at the end of WSC before the rebel players were allowed back into the Test side, thus making him ineligible for selection.

- Australia toured Pakistan twice during Lillee’s career – the first was the infamous 1979/80 tour when as we have heard ad nauseum he performed poorly. The second was nearly three years later when he was unavailable due to injuries I believe he’d suffered at the back end of the 81/82 NZ tour and was still trying to recover from. FWIW he came back to play the home Ashes series the following month, broke down after the first Test and missed the rest of the series. So I have no doubt he was legitimately unfit.

- Australia toured Sri Lanka also just once during Lillee’s career, and Lillee went on that tour, playing the only Test – his first Test after the breakdown mentioned above.

I am genuinely interested to hear from either BS or anyone else as to where these stories of Lillee consistently “refusing to tour the subcontinent” have come from. I think there’s a potentially fascinating story here somewhere.

 

[BhupinderSingh]

It's a nice myth to perpetuate, but considering the only Australian tour of India during his career was 1979/80 and none of the Packer players went on it, it doesn't carry much weight.

Ok,I'm convinced it was not for fear to bowl in unfriendly conditions that he didn't tour subcontinent many ties but th reason I don't rate him better than some bowlers is because they have better stats & were proven to be successful in more places than Lillee,not because Lillee failed in subcontinent.I consider him a great bowler but neither in the 1st tier of alltime pacers nor the greatest ever.My purpose to post in this thread was that all these "not considering Lillee a great bowler" threads/posts should stop now as I don't think there's even a one person on this forum who doesn't rate Lillee a great bowler.

 

[silentstriker]

I've never brought this "scientific test" poppycock.

I can't believe you actually said this. It's going in my sig.

 

[Sanz]

The Sean - Lillee is respected a lot in the subcontinent (well at least in India). Personally I have not met many people who buy into that belief (that Lillee deliberately avoided to tour Subcontienent), its only on the Internet forums that you see a few people voicing that opinion. I first heard it few years ago when I used to be on a Pakistani forum. Its spreads from one forum to another becase a lot of us frequent other forums as well.

 

[Sanz]

He was always "injured" whenever a tour of India came up.I remember someone mentioned the years in which he didn't tour subcontinent because of "injuries" & personal issues in "How good a bowler was Dennis Lillee?" thread.In his whole career,he toured Pakistan & Sri Lanka only once & never toured India which means he was afraid to bowl there because of extremly unfriendly conditions for fast bowling.

So I take it you dont have any document evidence of Lillee deliberately missing the subcontinent tour.

 

[Fiery]

I can't believe you actually said this. It's going in my sig.

I can. Stand by it too tbh. Probably not so much the actual testing but the way the ICC have manipulated it

 

[Richard]

I don't think I've ever been more frustrated TBH. That's the sort of comment I expect from morons, not sensible blokes like you.