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Murali's Record

BhupinderSingh

BhupinderSingh

Banned
The Sean said:
Is this way of thinking – that Lillee deliberately avoided and refused to tour the subcontinent – common amongst Asian cricket fans? I’ve met or read the thoughts of a number, both in person and online, who feel this way and while I don’t know where it has come from it would go a long way toward explaining many Asian cricket fans’ Lillee stance if it’s what they are brought up believing.

The facts, as I understand it, are these:

- Australia toured India just once during DKL’s career and it was at the end of WSC before the rebel players were allowed back into the Test side, thus making him ineligible for selection.

- Australia toured Pakistan twice during Lillee’s career – the first was the infamous 1979/80 tour when as we have heard ad nauseum he performed poorly. The second was nearly three years later when he was unavailable due to injuries I believe he’d suffered at the back end of the 81/82 NZ tour and was still trying to recover from. FWIW he came back to play the home Ashes series the following month, broke down after the first Test and missed the rest of the series. So I have no doubt he was legitimately unfit.

- Australia toured Sri Lanka also just once during Lillee’s career, and Lillee went on that tour, playing the only Test – his first Test after the breakdown mentioned above.

I am genuinely interested to hear from either BS or anyone else as to where these stories of Lillee consistently “refusing to tour the subcontinent” have come from. I think there’s a potentially fascinating story here somewhere.
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TBH,heard it from some longtime cricket followers of my country,asked some Indians & even they told me the same but after hearing valid expanations,I think they're all wrong.
 
pup11

pup11

International Coach
BhupinderSingh said:
Ok,I'm convinced it was not for fear to bowl in unfriendly conditions that he didn't tour subcontinent many ties but th reason I don't rate him better than some bowlers is because they have better stats & were proven to be successful in more places than Lillee,not because Lillee failed in subcontinent.I consider him a great bowler but neither in the 1st tier of alltime pacers nor the greatest ever.My purpose to post in this thread was that all these "not considering Lillee a great bowler" threads/posts should stop now as I don't think there's even a one person on this forum who doesn't rate Lillee a great bowler.
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Mate there is no denying that DK Lillee was one of the all time great fast bowlers and a few set of stats is just not gonna change that, there is no problem if you don't like him or you don't rate him too highly but you can't just tell other people to do just the same and cook up lame stories just to do so.
Sir Donald Bradman also never toured the sub-continent and we will never know how he might have faired if he had to bat in sub-continental conditions, but still don't we rate him as the best batsman of all-time??
Mind you i am not saying Lillee is an all-time great fast bowler but he is not as bad as accusing him to be.
 
BhupinderSingh

BhupinderSingh

Banned
Sanz said:
So I take it you dont have any document evidence of Lillee deliberately missing the subcontinent tour.
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Yep.If you were not there to witness an event,you believe what some people who saw that happening tell you about it & thats what I've done in this case.
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
The Sean said:
Is this way of thinking – that Lillee deliberately avoided and refused to tour the subcontinent – common amongst Asian cricket fans?
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Don't think it's unique to Asians at all TBH - first place I heard the thing suggested was by amz (don't know if your paths ever crossed TBH, and the stupid Search Feature still isn't working properly so I can't find said post), and I'm sure I've heard it somewhere else since, whether it was from an Asian or non-Asian I wouldn't have a clue.
I am genuinely interested to hear from either BS or anyone else as to where these stories of Lillee consistently “refusing to tour the subcontinent” have come from. I think there’s a potentially fascinating story here somewhere.
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There are lots of myths around, though, many of which have at least some basis in fact. Gavaskar's record against the West Indian seamers is one other example. I've mentioned before now my reasons as to why I think this thought might have cropped-up.
 
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silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Fiery said:
I can. Stand by it too tbh. Probably not so much the actual testing but the way the ICC have manipulated it
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Even better. How did the ICC manipulate the researchers at the University of Western Australia? I'd be interested in knowing.
 
BhupinderSingh

BhupinderSingh

Banned
pup11 said:
Mate there is no denying that DK Lillee was one of the all time great fast bowlers and a few set of stats is just not gonna change that, there is no problem if you don't like him or you don't rate him too highly but you can't just tell other people to do just the same and cook up lame stories just to do so.
Sir Donald Bradman also never toured the sub-continent and we will never know how he might have faired if he had to bat in sub-continental conditions, but still don't we rate him as the best batsman of all-time??
Mind you i am not saying Lillee is an all-time great fast bowler but he is not as bad as accusing him to be.
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I just said Lillee was great not better than some bowlers,not that he was bad.And Bradman would've surely averaged 150+ in subcontinent because of batting friendly conditions there.
 
Sanz

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
BhupinderSingh said:
Yep.If you were not there to witness an event,you believe what some people who saw that happening tell you about it & thats what I've done in this case.
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So how did they see Lillee refuseing to tour the Subcontinent because he was afraid of bowling on flat pitches ? If that indeed is true why dont we see anything mentioned anywhere in the cricket history ?
 
BhupinderSingh

BhupinderSingh

Banned
Sanz said:
So how did they see Lillee refuseing to tour the Subcontinent because he was afraid of bowling on flat pitches ? If that indeed is true why dont we see anything mentioned anywhere in the cricket history ?
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I'll ask whenever one of those people who told this meets me in near future.
 
The Sean

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
Sanz said:
The Sean - Lillee is respected a lot in the subcontinent (well at least in India). Personally I have not met many people who buy into that belief (that Lillee deliberately avoided to tour Subcontienent), its only on the Internet forums that you see a few people voicing that opinion. I first heard it few years ago when I used to be on a Pakistani forum. Its spreads from one forum to another becase a lot of us frequent other forums as well.
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BhupinderSingh said:
TBH,heard it from some longtime cricket followers of my country,asked some Indians & even they told me the same but after hearing valid expanations,I think they're all wrong.
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Richard said:
Don't think it's unique to Asians at all TBH - first place I heard the thing suggested was by amz (don't know if your paths ever crossed TBH, and the stupid Search Feature still isn't working properly so I can't find said post), and I'm sure I've heard it somewhere else since, whether it was from an Asian or non-Asian I wouldn't have a clue.

There are lots of myths around, though, many of which have at least some basis in fact. Gavaskar's record against the West Indian seamers is one other example. I've mentioned before now my reasons as to why I think this thought might have cropped-up.
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Great stuff lads, thanks. Always good to get different perspectives on the same story - not that these kind of myths are ever truly either validated or dispelled, but it always makes for interesting discussion.
 
silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
BhupinderSingh said:
Yet another man with the same "not considering Lillee an alltime great" thats something I've really become sick of & surely is very annoying.Sir,who told you you that I don't consider Lillee a great bowler?
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Haha, yea. That's why I am starting to stay out of all player threads. It comes back to the same old arguments where you try to explain your views but they just fall back on the same annoying stereotypes on what they think your position is, not what it actually is.
 
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