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Most Overrated Player?
- Thread starter Andre
- Start date
Neil Pickup
Cricket Web Moderator
http://www.cricketworld.com.au/odirates.htm
Kapil Dev comes out top on the SR/ER, out of current players the top 6 are: Wasim, Shahid Afridi, Klusener, Jayasuriya, Hooper, Tendulkar (so not great...)
Batting Ave divided by Bowling Ave (I use this for Club/School stats) gives:
1 Klusener, 2 Kallis, 3 Richards, 4 Imran Khan, 5 Abdur Razzaq, 6 Cronje, 7 Hooper, 8 Shaun Pollock, 9 Richard Hadlee, 10 S Waugh, 11 Tendulkar, 12 Cairns.
Using their Batting & Bowling Performance Ratings:
Klusener, Richards, GS Chapple, Imran Khan, RJ Hadlee, Kapil Dev, Kallis, Ganguly, Cronje, ME Waugh, Abdur Razzaq, Hooper.
So inconclusive, really...
Kapil Dev comes out top on the SR/ER, out of current players the top 6 are: Wasim, Shahid Afridi, Klusener, Jayasuriya, Hooper, Tendulkar (so not great...)
Batting Ave divided by Bowling Ave (I use this for Club/School stats) gives:
1 Klusener, 2 Kallis, 3 Richards, 4 Imran Khan, 5 Abdur Razzaq, 6 Cronje, 7 Hooper, 8 Shaun Pollock, 9 Richard Hadlee, 10 S Waugh, 11 Tendulkar, 12 Cairns.
Using their Batting & Bowling Performance Ratings:
Klusener, Richards, GS Chapple, Imran Khan, RJ Hadlee, Kapil Dev, Kallis, Ganguly, Cronje, ME Waugh, Abdur Razzaq, Hooper.
So inconclusive, really...
Neil Pickup
Cricket Web Moderator
GS Chapple meaning GS Chappell...
lord_of_darkness
Cricket Web XI Moderator
okay if u see the triangular finals between Sri Lanka vs South Africa
you wouldnt say Sanath was over rated , he did a good job batting well hitting 71 and saved the sri lankan team i guess with some good captaincy and rotating his bowlers well
you wouldnt say Sanath was over rated , he did a good job batting well hitting 71 and saved the sri lankan team i guess with some good captaincy and rotating his bowlers well
Neil Pickup
Cricket Web Moderator
I don't think that Sanath is rated as a consistent player, but as a match-winner.
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
Possibly Nasser Hussain deserves to be mentioned in the same sentence as the phrase "most overrated captain".
Appealing against the light last night as captain of a fielding side was the action of a weasel.
Appealing against the light last night as captain of a fielding side was the action of a weasel.
Neil Pickup
Cricket Web Moderator
I missed that.
I can't believe he tried that, it's almost like attempting to declare whilst bowling...
I can't believe he tried that, it's almost like attempting to declare whilst bowling...
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
No.
I've been an admirer of Hussain's captaincy over the last couple of years. It's just that I think that he needs to be a little more flexible if Plan 'A' doesn't work.
I think that a Plan 'B' might help - or maybe he's already implemented Plan 'B' - lull the Indians into a false sense of security. Hey, that one worked.
I've been an admirer of Hussain's captaincy over the last couple of years. It's just that I think that he needs to be a little more flexible if Plan 'A' doesn't work.
I think that a Plan 'B' might help - or maybe he's already implemented Plan 'B' - lull the Indians into a false sense of security. Hey, that one worked.
royGilchrist
State 12th Man
I have not seen this match live, but I get the impression it has eerie similarities with the Eng/Pak test in Karachi a few years back, when Pak was playing for a draw, throughout the last day: appealing for bad light as the fielding side, and Razzaq I think scored 0 runs off 30 odd balls.
This time the tables were turned and Eng were on the receiving end. It really does impact negatively when a team starts playing to 'not lose', and In Pak's case it was worse because had they played faster, in the morning the match would have become out of the reach of Eng, but unfortunately the Pak think tank Moin/Miandad had other ideas.
This time the tables were turned and Eng were on the receiving end. It really does impact negatively when a team starts playing to 'not lose', and In Pak's case it was worse because had they played faster, in the morning the match would have become out of the reach of Eng, but unfortunately the Pak think tank Moin/Miandad had other ideas.
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
The 'appeal against the light' this time was on day two, when Ganguly and Tendulkar were giving it a serious bit of tonk. The start had been delayed an hour and although England's over rate was not great, it wasn't (or at least didn't seem to be) deliberately slow like the Pakistan bowling looked at the end of the test you were talking about.
The same problems were met by the fielding side, although wasn't the problem in Pakistan also to do with Ramadan because the sun had officially set? (forgive me if I am wrong here)
I recall the West Indies once bowling 10 overs in an hour many years ago in similar circumstances - this was the prime reason for the introduction of minimum overs per day, fines for low over rates based on a percentage of the match fee etc.
The same problems were met by the fielding side, although wasn't the problem in Pakistan also to do with Ramadan because the sun had officially set? (forgive me if I am wrong here)
I recall the West Indies once bowling 10 overs in an hour many years ago in similar circumstances - this was the prime reason for the introduction of minimum overs per day, fines for low over rates based on a percentage of the match fee etc.
royGilchrist
State 12th Man
I think u r right about Ramadan, but its pretty simple with Ramadan, the players take a few minutes break when the sun sets. Thats it, no more. Pak were bowling slower purposely to make sure it got dark for english batsmen.
I remember the Pak players complaining that the light was so bad, they could not see it on the boundary line, and I think Moin missed a couple of takes behind the stumps, because he couldnt see in the poor light
I dont remeber the WI bowling rate, but over the years India I think have been the biggest culprit in slow bowling rates and also unnecessary appealing. Especailly unnecessary appeling needs to be somehow curbed by ICC, it puts just too much pressure on the umps, who are already under so much pressure due to tv replays and all the camera angles.
I remember the Pak players complaining that the light was so bad, they could not see it on the boundary line, and I think Moin missed a couple of takes behind the stumps, because he couldnt see in the poor light
I dont remeber the WI bowling rate, but over the years India I think have been the biggest culprit in slow bowling rates and also unnecessary appealing. Especailly unnecessary appeling needs to be somehow curbed by ICC, it puts just too much pressure on the umps, who are already under so much pressure due to tv replays and all the camera angles.
Gotchya
State Vice-Captain
About flintoff's bowling, i mean to say that he just doesn't look to me to be anything big.Another medium pacer who runs up to the wicket and hopes the pitch will do it for him(leaving apart the variation in speed). Cannot possibly hope for such a player to survive the longer challenge. He just would not have the armor to get batsmen out.
At best he is a utility player that can be useful in one dayers, doubtful if he should be in the test side.
Tell me if that is a fair assesment...
At best he is a utility player that can be useful in one dayers, doubtful if he should be in the test side.
Tell me if that is a fair assesment...
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
Gotchya, I think that is a very fair assessment.
For years, every new bug has been baggaged with the label 'new Ian Botham' - it certainly happened to Corky, and he was probably the only one to come anywhere near justifying the tag in his first 10 tests.
I think that Flintoff is 'useful' at best. He can be a match-winner with the bat, but he will never be a match saver (I don't think the guy will ever learn how to defend). His bowling, whilst coming in for praise from various circles, is at best threatening and at worse diabolical - he strikes me as someone who could come on to bowl 3 or 4 overs when a batsman is set, just for a change.
For years, every new bug has been baggaged with the label 'new Ian Botham' - it certainly happened to Corky, and he was probably the only one to come anywhere near justifying the tag in his first 10 tests.
I think that Flintoff is 'useful' at best. He can be a match-winner with the bat, but he will never be a match saver (I don't think the guy will ever learn how to defend). His bowling, whilst coming in for praise from various circles, is at best threatening and at worse diabolical - he strikes me as someone who could come on to bowl 3 or 4 overs when a batsman is set, just for a change.
Neil Pickup
Cricket Web Moderator
And his current Test averages bear you out on that front.
Re Andre/Rob Key - He's had two starts. Ramprakash has done it for years and years. Marvan Atapattu got 1 run in his first 6 innings, and Eddie has already outlined some other slow starters (Sobers!). I think that what you said could be taken as libel by some!
Re Andre/Rob Key - He's had two starts. Ramprakash has done it for years and years. Marvan Atapattu got 1 run in his first 6 innings, and Eddie has already outlined some other slow starters (Sobers!). I think that what you said could be taken as libel by some!