Modern New Zealand XI (dayboo post 1980) first poll: The Two Positions from Hell

[NZTailender]

Fleming-Richardson not a bad shout from their actual record. Will just leave this here.

Partnership records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Flem274*]

jones scored a lot of runs against australia iirc. if he was english he'd be a national hero. also wanted to murder an australian journalist once and tried to find him at the ground according to ian smith. their media saw his odd technique and wrote him off.

 

[Hurricane]

jones scored a lot of runs against australia iirc. if he was english he'd be a national hero. also wanted to murder an australian journalist once and tried to find him at the ground according to ian smith. their media saw his odd technique and wrote him off.

Ian Chappell brutalised him. And then apologised after he scored 180 at the wacca
Said the apology over the air while he was batting.

 

[Zinzan]

Fleming-Richardson not a bad shout from their actual record. Will just leave this here.

Partnership records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Yeah & for me the biggest argument for Fleming's case as 2nd opener was when he took it upon himself to bat there in England in 2004. He scored 308 runs @ 51 against the winning Ashes attack (12 mths prior) of Hoggard, Harmison, Jones, Flintoff & Giles.

 

[marc71178]

When McCullum stopped being used as a floater and found his real place in the order, he became one of the better batsmen in the world. I don't think Fleming would have ever made a World XI at any point in his career like McCullum has the past 12 months or so.

Sorry, but on what planet does McCullum come close to making a World XI in the past 12 months?

 

[Bahnz]

Jones was a number 3 wasn't he? He's KW's only serious competition for first drop.

 

[Flem274*]

Sorry, but on what planet does McCullum come close to making a World XI in the past 12 months?

Earth iirc

He's no English cricket team but he's not terrible

 

[Bahnz]

Earth iirc

He's no English cricket team but he's not terrible

Yeah, it's not the biggest sample size, but in the last year McCullum has averaged nearly 60 in test cricket at a SR of over 90. Wouldn't walk into the side automatically but he'd definitely be in the conversation.

 

[NZTailender]

Jones was a number 3 wasn't he? He's KW's only serious competition for first drop.

Fleming's numbers at 3 aren't as good as KW but 47.9 @ #3 is very good.

 

[marc71178]

Wouldn't be anywhere near the 1st XI and would struggle to make the 2nd XI IMO.

All of Williamson, Smith, Root, Amla, de Villiers, Sangakkara are ahead of him for starters.

 

[straw man]

Richardson obviously a given.

I think none of the other pure opening options are good enough, while McCullum, Fleming and Jones are all valid options who also face stiff competition to make the team in their more traditional spots. That's a tough one though.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Wouldn't be anywhere near the 1st XI and would struggle to make the 2nd XI IMO.

All of Williamson, Smith, Root, Amla, de Villiers, Sangakkara are ahead of him for starters.

Sanga has retired but I'm not entering this debate because although McCullum had a glorious year and a bit, from India at home 2013/14 to Sri Lanka at home 2014/15 it was made with 5 centuries totalling over a 1000 runs from those cnturies alone (as 4 of them were huge hundreds) and not much else.

Hopefully this topic is still up for debate after NZ plays Australia.

 

[Dan]

Sanga has retired but I'm not entering this debate because although McCullum had a glorious year and a bit, from India at home 2013/14 to Sri Lanka at home 2014/15 it was made with 5 centuries totalling over a 1000 runs from those cnturies alone (as 4 of them were huge hundreds) and not much else.

Hopefully this topic is still up for debate after NZ plays Australia.

"If you ignore the times he scored runs, he didn't score any runs."

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

"If you ignore the times he scored runs, he didn't score any runs."

Ha.

As I said I'm not entering this debate, but if he has another year and a bit with 4 huge scores and a whole lot of nothing, clearly demonstrating that he has finally fulfilled his potential, and become a leading world class batsman then I too will champion Brendon on the McCullum fan boy bandwagon.

 

[cnerd123]

Voted Horne, but now that I've thought about it, reckon it's gotta be Flem. Did well in his few turns at opening the bat, and forged a solid partnership with Richardson up the top. Further with KW now on the scene he won't be making number 3, so you might as well find a place for him somewhere given his qualities as a captain.

Voted BMac but agree with this.

Fleming to open; BMac as a pure bat at 6. 3 seamers, vettori and some KW jam to make up the bowling attack.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Voted BMac but agree with this.

Fleming to open; BMac as a pure bat at 6. 3 seamers, vettori and some KW jam to make up the bowling attack.

The young Martin Crowe was an okay seamer too. Pretty decent 1st class stats.

Not that I think 6 batsman including BMac will eventuate, but if it does - Cairns for 3rd seamer and Smithy with the gloves at 9.

 

[Flem274*]

After Baz racing away early Fleming is making a late charge. I'll leave the keeper poll so Fleming v Baz has more time and get the spinners one on I think.

 

[Immenso]

I have a soft spot for big Trev Franklin, good role player. But his appearance on lists near top of NZ average opening partnerships had a lot to do with him happening to coincide with John Wright's peak years.

When Wright changed his stance in 1989 he became prolific in 89/90 season and above average for the remaining few years of his career. This also coincided with the end of his decade long Derby off season contract IIRC fur those looking for causation/correlation etc.

In 89/90 his strike rate was also through the roof by normal wright standards.

So for a year or so Franklin literally needed to just stay in, at a crawling pace, and NZ would be getting good and relatively brisk opening stands.

 

[Prince EWS]

I'd like to actually change my vote from McCullum to Fleming if that's allowed. It's clearly not tactical voting as I'm changing from 1 to 2; I've just changed my mind.

 

[Hurricane]

I'd like to actually change my vote from McCullum to Fleming if that's allowed. It's clearly not tactical voting as I'm changing from 1 to 2; I've just changed my mind.

he made a whole thread for peeps to re-vote. check it out,