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Modern New Zealand XI (dayboo post 1980) first poll: The Two Positions from Hell

Pick two openers

  • Total voters
    39
  • Poll closed .
Hurricane

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Brendon averaged 15 opening the batting in Australia and 20 in South Africa, he cleaned up in NZ and in the sub continent. He also would have failed in England had he tried.

Franklin nearly always made it to Lunch. Or to be honest usually for 90 minutes of the morning session at least ALWAYS. Not sometimes, not once out of every two innings. ALWAYS. At least that is what I remember.
 
C

CaptainGrumpy

Banned
Hurricane said:
Brendon averaged 15 opening the batting in Australia and 20 in South Africa, he cleaned up in NZ and in the sub continent. He also would have failed in England had he tried.

Franklin nearly always made it to Lunch. Or to be honest usually for 90 minutes of the morning session at least ALWAYS. Not sometimes, not once out of every two innings. ALWAYS. At least that is what I remember.
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Its no surprise given that his 23 run average at his strike rate of 26.44 is worth 89 deliveries. He averaged a session of batting time per innings. He could never make it as a middle order batsman with that batting average, but that can be incredibly effective for an opener to help his middle order batsmen. I am sure Jones and Crowe appreciated it.
 
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Hurricane

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
CaptainGrumpy said:
Its no surprise given that his 23 run average at his strike rate of 26.44 is worth 89 deliveries. He averaged a session of batting time per innings. He could never make it as a middle order batsman with that batting average, but that can be incredibly effective for an opener to help his middle order batsmen. I am sure Jones and Crowe appreciated it.
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Great post. Jeez my mind wasn't playing tricks on me then. He really was slow. LOL at a SR of 26.44
 
C

CaptainGrumpy

Banned
Hurricane said:
Great post. Jeez my mind wasn't playing tricks on me then. He really was slow. LOL at a SR of 26.44
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Yeah, I've been watching the CW averages draft miffed in disbelief that no-one has picked him.

But seeing off the pronounced seam and orthodox new ball swing, as well as the bounce factor, is an incredibly valuable skill for an opening batsman. As well as taking the freshness out of the strike bowlers and collecting more extras by batting time. Its worth a discount on criticizing the average.
 
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Zinzan

Zinzan

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CaptainGrumpy said:
Yeah, I've been watching the CW averages draft miffed in disbelief that no-one has picked him.

But seeing off the pronounced seam and orthodox new ball swing, as well as the bounce factor, is an incredibly valuable skill for an opening batsman. As well as taking the freshness out of the strike bowlers. Its worth a discount on criticizing the average.
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Perhaps if he averaged 33, and not 23, we'd be more forgiving in that respect. But 23 is abysmal for a modern opening batsman in anyone's language.
 
Zinzan

Zinzan

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Hurricane said:
Nah - re-read Grumpy's earlier post about lasting 89 balls.
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I read it the first time. Sorry 23 from 89 is rubbish and it allows he opposition captain & bowlers total control to bowl & have field-sets where ever they want. We already all agree about having Richardson as one of the openers, so you want both a good snail and a bad snail?
 
Hurricane

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Zinzan said:
I read it the first time. Sorry 23 from 89 is rubbish and it allows he opposition captain & bowlers total control to bowl & have field-sets where ever they want. We already all agree about having Richardson as one of the openers, so you want both a good snail and a bad snail?
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That wasn't the question. It wasn't who was best suited to bat with Richardson. It was who was better than McCullum as a question unto itself.

The nuance I would like to see in your posts is that we are talking about opening batsman here, no one really cares about the SR, the primary job is just to stay in.

Even if he averaged 15 and had a SR of 10 I would still plug for him if he could last 100 balls each time. The nice thing about Franklin is that he would always get out when it was time to accelerate and Jones would walk in. Our run rate was always ok by the time we completed our innings. Especially with peeps like HAdlee and Lance Cairns down the order to smack it around and get the run rate up

What about some of TMacs innings? I remember one inning at Napier where people started wanting him to get out and complaining about how slow he was. Eventually he did get out, at that stage the bowling attack was exhausted and we put them to the sword and scored 500 odd.

You know all these theories though I think you are paying too much attention to the fact that Richardson is at the other end.
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Voted Horne, but now that I've thought about it, reckon it's gotta be Flem. Did well in his few turns at opening the bat, and forged a solid partnership with Richardson up the top. Further with KW now on the scene he won't be making number 3, so you might as well find a place for him somewhere given his qualities as a captain.
 
NUFAN

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Hurricane said:
Brendon averaged 15 opening the batting in Australia and 20 in South Africa, he cleaned up in NZ and in the sub continent. He also would have failed in England had he tried.

Franklin nearly always made it to Lunch. Or to be honest usually for 90 minutes of the morning session at least ALWAYS. Not sometimes, not once out of every two innings. ALWAYS. At least that is what I remember.
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He batted for 90 minutes or more 19 times out of 37. So yes, ALWAYS apart from nearly half the time. :)
 
Zinzan

Zinzan

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Bahnz said:
Voted Horne, but now that I've thought about it, reckon it's gotta be Flem. Did well in his few turns at opening the bat, and forged a solid partnership with Richardson up the top. Further with KW now on the scene he won't be making number 3, so you might as well find a place for him somewhere given his qualities as a captain.
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My thoughts precisely.
 
C

CaptainGrumpy

Banned
NUFAN said:
He batted for 90 minutes or more 19 times out of 37. So yes, ALWAYS apart from nearly half the time. :)
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You need to do it again for first innings seeing he said till lunch.

Its still not always. But the point is valid even if made by way of hyperbole.

I went through the innings by innings list. He was not walking wicket but he was a cheap date. But cost more in the long run as the next players walked over the soft ball and tired bowlers.
 
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Zinzan

Zinzan

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Hurricane said:
That wasn't the question. It wasn't who was best suited to bat with Richardson. It was who was better than McCullum as a question unto itself.

The nuance I would like to see in your posts is that we are talking about opening batsman here, no one really cares about the SR, the primary job is just to stay in.

Even if he averaged 15 and had a SR of 10 I would still plug for him if he could last 100 balls each time. The nice thing about Franklin is that he would always get out when it was time to accelerate and Jones would walk in. Our run rate was always ok by the time we completed our innings. Especially with peeps like HAdlee and Lance Cairns down the order to smack it around and get the run rate up

What about some of TMacs innings? I remember one inning at Napier where people started wanting him to get out and complaining about how slow he was. Eventually he did get out, at that stage the bowling attack was exhausted and we put them to the sword and scored 500 odd.

You know all these theories though I think you are paying too much attention to the fact that Richardson is at the other end.
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Obviously I'm well aware of the importance of openers taking the shine off the ball, but I'm equally aware that runs/wickets win matches, and frankly (excuse the pun), I'd much prefer someone who averaged 30 from an average of say 70 balls (which assuming they face half the deliveries would see them dismissed in the 24th over), than 23 from 89.
 
NUFAN

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
CaptainGrumpy said:
You need to do it again for first innings seeing he said till lunch.

Its still not always. But the point is valid even if made by way of hyperbole.

I went through the innings by innings list. He was not walking wicket but he was a cheap date. But cost more in the long run as the next players walked over the soft ball and tired bowlers.
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The guy scored 168 runs in the first innings of a Test match at an average of 15.27 with a highest score of 33. Very cheap date.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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I don't remember anything about Andrew Jones. How was he? His record looks pretty awesome for a batsman of that era.
 
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