Left-arm Chinaman bowlers!!..can they make it at test level?

[SeamUp]

Isn’t it about time cricket consigned ‘chinaman’ to the past?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/28/the-spin-cricket-chinaman-phrase?CMP=share_btn_tw

Here was me thinking what a load of toffee when someone said should it not be called a chinaman anymore.

The world is so sensitive now.

 

[Marius]

Isn’t it about time cricket consigned ‘chinaman’ to the past?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/28/the-spin-cricket-chinaman-phrase?CMP=share_btn_tw

Here was me thinking what a load of toffee when someone said should it not be called a chinaman anymore.

The world is so sensitive now.

I was thinking of posting this. I'm conflicted - I see how it could be seen as offensive, but is it really? I'm not sure it is.

And offensive is always taken, not given, so people do need to chill.

 

[Chewie]

I think part of the problem is also with the racist sledges that it can also result in. Now people can argue whether they think sledging is appropriate or not, but I think race based sledges go too far. If I were to play cricket then there probably would be sledges relating to my race and whether I bowl Chinaman, or even just using Chinaman as an insult since it is a cricket term which serves to legitimise it somehow. This would also apply no matter what Asian ethnicity I was, people would probably refer to Japanese or Korean cricketers as Chinamen as well. And it would probably be worse if I was actually a Chinaman bowler.

I think that it is not too difficult to remove an outdated cricketing term that refers to the rarest bowling style and which may have racist connotations and replace it with a more relevant cricketing term. If we want to increase cricket's popularity not just amongst the Asian populations in our countries but also in those Asian nations as well, we might as well remove this very slight impediment. I don't think cricket generally stands to lose very much from its removal.

 

[Shri]

Off Spinner
Leg Spinner
Slow Left Arm
???

Gotta restrict the new term to three words max. Lets coin a CW tern for left arm leg spinners right here. Maybe the ****s at cricinfo will copy that too and make it famous.

 

[Shri]

Left Arm Leggie (LAL)

 

[Furball]

Left arm wrist spin.

Slow Left Arm is ****ing demeaning as well.

 

[Chewie]

Left arm unorthodox

 

[AndrewB]

I always find the abbreviations for spinners confusing at a glance; for pace bowlers you have

RF, RFM, RMF, RM
LF, LFM, LMF, LM

- OK, the "F"s and "M"s aren't so clear, but you can see pretty easily that it's a pace bowler, and whether they bowl right- or left-arm. Then for spinners you have

OB, LB
SLA, SLC

which doesn't fit with the pace bowlers system at all! How about RO, RW, LO, LW for right/left orthodox/wrist spin? (Possibly with an "S" in the middle or at the end).

 

[cnerd123]

ROS for right orthodox spin or offspin
LOS for left orthodox spin or offspin
RLB for right leg breaks
LLB for left leg breaks

Don't mind FS for finger spin and WS for wrist spin either, with R and L behind them

 

[NZTailender]

RFS
RWS
LFS
LWS

For pacers you don't describe which way the ball is moving as a swing or seam bowler so who gives a ****

 

[silentstriker]

I was thinking of posting this. I'm conflicted - I see how it could be seen as offensive, but is it really? I'm not sure it is.

And offensive is always taken, not given, so people do need to chill.

Yeah it's offensive. And yeah, offense is very often given too.

 

[Marius]

Yeah it's offensive. And yeah, offense is very often given too.

You're right, offense is given too.

But there is a difference between calling a person of East Asian descent: 'A bl**dy Chinaman!' and making the observation that 'Paul Adams was a Chinaman bowler.'

 

[Spark]

It doesn't bother me that much but every time I read a "defense" of it (such as the one posted by SeamUp) it bothers me a little bit more.

On the substance, the fact that it has racist origins doesn't automatically condemn it, but it means that I don't think tradition alone is a good enough reason to keep it. Again it doesn't bother me personally that much, but if the only argument people can make for keeping it is "down with political correctness!!1one" without understanding why someone like me might find it exclusionary, then get rid of it.

Emotionally it's not something I care about. But the more I think of it, the more I find its usage absurd, basically.

 

[Spark]

I think part of the problem is also with the racist sledges that it can also result in. Now people can argue whether they think sledging is appropriate or not, but I think race based sledges go too far. If I were to play cricket then there probably would be sledges relating to my race and whether I bowl Chinaman, or even just using Chinaman as an insult since it is a cricket term which serves to legitimise it somehow. This would also apply no matter what Asian ethnicity I was, people would probably refer to Japanese or Korean cricketers as Chinamen as well. And it would probably be worse if I was actually a Chinaman bowler.

I think that it is not too difficult to remove an outdated cricketing term that refers to the rarest bowling style and which may have racist connotations and replace it with a more relevant cricketing term. If we want to increase cricket's popularity not just amongst the Asian populations in our countries but also in those Asian nations as well, we might as well remove this very slight impediment. I don't think cricket generally stands to lose very much from its removal.

In contrast, this—if it happened—would be immediately and egregiously racist and definitely notable. But I don't think it's intrinsically related to this particular use of "chinaman", more the very insidious practice of deadbeats assuming that the entirety of East and South East Asia is one country.

It would be very awkward if you had a, well, chinaman bowler who was not of Chinese descent. Particularly if there were unexpected political considerations at play too.

 

[SeamUp]

You're right, offense is given too.

But there is a difference between calling a person of East Asian descent: 'A bl**dy Chinaman!' and making the observation that 'Paul Adams was a Chinaman bowler.'

That is exactly where I stand.

It isn't really anything to defend or attack.

When people use it in derogatory terms then society needs to challenge those individuals.

 

[sledger]

Haha, should definitely be renamed left-armed gweiloman.

 

[Dan]

That is exactly where I stand.

It isn't really anything to defend or attack.

When people use it in derogatory terms then society needs to challenge those individuals.

I guess the argument is that the latter usage only exists because of the former.

 

[Daemon]

Zahir Khan's doing alright against Ireland atm.

All of a sudden we've got a fair number of these guys going around. Shamsi, Yadav, Sandakan and Khan.

 

[Top_Cat]

Sometimes have a glut of them. Then reality hits...

 

[SeamUp]

I guess the argument is that the latter usage only exists because of the former.

I get that.

I suppose a lot of us have used the term without actually knowing the negative connotations.

Although what I would say is, even if the term is used rarely, it used correctly today just as something describing a cricketing act. Like the article said,( it was a bit 'Irish' (opposite spin direction)but Achong had Chinese roots and a ball then named a chinaman doesn't make the ball called a 'heathen chinaman'.

I'm not strongly for or against it tbh - Just thought it was a bit of a non-starter in my mind.

If it was changed it wouldn't effect any of us really.