Kallis vs Sobers, Donald vs Steyn, Trott vs Pollock

[thierry henry]

This forum has very little active South African members, therefore everybody makes up their mind without taking South African circumstances as well as politics into consideration. To bloom in conditions like that in teams which were not always world class under administrators who mostly lost the plot and to perform consistently the way he did is more than amendable. His talent, ability and mental strength is beyond question. I would definitely not group him with Pietersen, Dravid etc but above that lot.
The argument that he has not won matches for his team is also somewhat ludicrous for mine. He has played in many a match where he was the main contributor and without him the game would have been lost.

Thankyou for this fantastic post. The pro-Sobers majority seem to rely on completely minimizing all of Kallis' achievements to make their points and it is refreshing to see someone highlight some of the difficulties that Kallis has faced. To listen to some of his detractors you would think that somehow the stars have constantly aligned in his favour over the last 15+ years, and that Sobers is the single unluckiest bowler in cricket history.

Excellent points on Steyn/Donald also, I have watched a lot of Donald on youtube lately (also watched him live many times) and I think, like most bowlers, he was decidedly underwhelming at times.

 

[benchmark00]

Just did the sums...

Kallis averages 75.77 balls per innings in which he bowled in, as opposed to Sobers who had 136.43.

Sobers nearly had double the workload over his career, some of that would be spin though.

How many left handers did he get out caught behind??

 

[vic_orthdox]

Wouldn't be surprised if it's one of the reasons, not necessarily a conscious one, that people of the era rate Sobers, and Botham for that matter, so highly. Their bowling workload as batting all-rounders is very high, and means that they are always the pre-eminent player in both innings of the match.

 

[Spikey]

worth considering that in innings Kallis bowls more than 75.77 balls in he bowls over 15 overs.

 

[MrPrez]

Just did the sums...

Kallis averages 75.77 balls per innings in which he bowled in, as opposed to Sobers who had 136.43.

Sobers nearly had double the workload over his career, some of that would be spin though.

Kallis=140kph, bend-your-back bowler.
Sobers= mediumpacers/spinner.

A bit harsh to compare tbh.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Kallis=140kph, bend-your-back bowler.
Sobers= mediumpacers/spinner.

A bit harsh to compare tbh.

From all reports, medium pace isn't doing Sobers much service.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah Sobers was reportedly about the same pace as Kallis in their respective primes.

 

[Spikey]

Google image search for 'jacques kallis wife' yields better results than one for 'gary sobers wife' FWIW

 

[vic_orthdox]

Ah, but Neil McKenzie's sister > All.

 

[Spikey]

Trott v McKenzie. Neil comes out the winner pretty easily imo

 

[L Trumper]

Its brilliant how people are bringing political issues and how the great kallis dealt with it.
Its not as if sobers is the first black cricketing icon who inspired legions of cricket fans across the world.

Batting : Sobers best of his generation, kallis not.

Bowling : On whole career kallis may be better, but for a stretch of 8 years in middle of his career sobers was in top 5 pacers in the world. Which kallis never is.

Fielding : Sobers probably one of the best close - in fielders ever especially in the era he played in, Kallis is also a brilliant fielder though.

Never really understand how anyone can rate kallis higher than Sobers though. He is bloody brilliant, one of the best but he is not sobers. When sobers is at his peak, it was like he would beat the entire opposition by himself, funny thing is he actually did it, series after series. Kallis simply didn't instill same fear in opposition. (Considering both of them has identical stats over their careers, these kind of things really matter)

 

[thierry henry]

Its brilliant how people are bringing political issues and how the great kallis dealt with it.
Its not as if sobers is the first black cricketing icon who inspired legions of cricket fans across the world.

Batting : Sobers best of his generation, kallis not.

Bowling : On whole career kallis may be better, but for a stretch of 8 years in middle of his career sobers was in top 5 pacers in the world. Which kallis never is.

Fielding : Sobers probably one of the best close - in fielders ever especially in the era he played in, Kallis is also a brilliant fielder though.

Never really understand how anyone can rate kallis higher than Sobers though. He is bloody brilliant, one of the best but he is not sobers. When sobers is at his peak, it was like he would beat the entire opposition by himself, funny thing is he actually did it, series after series. Kallis simply didn't instill same fear in opposition. (Considering both of them has identical stats over their careers, these kind of things really matter)

Sobers did not beat the opposition by himself. With his bowling record....just no. He had to bowl forever to take wickets. Kallis is/was far, far more likely to take quick wickets.

 

[L Trumper]

Sobers did not beat the opposition by himself. With his bowling record....just no. He had to bowl forever to take wickets. Kallis is/was far, far more likely to take quick wickets.

Er .. no! He had bloody good series with the ball. Its not like taking 5 wickets in every test, but there were series where he took around 20 wickets.

 

[MrPrez]

Bowling average tells it all tbh. Sobers was an average bowler tbh, would not have made it into the line-up on bowling alone.

 

[vic_orthdox]

From all reports, medium pace isn't doing Sobers much service.

TBF, is medium pace on stick cricket...

 

[MrPrez]

This.

 

[marc71178]

Bowling average tells it all tbh. Sobers was an average bowler tbh, would not have made it into the line-up on bowling alone.

Which makes Kallis an even more average bowler who wouldn't make it into the line-up on bowling alone.

 

[smash84]

So I contradict your point and you agree with me, rendering your previous comment inaccurate I would say.

See Jake's post below. I quoted Henry to refute your point.

Looks like he's agree with henry's reply, and quoting your post for context.

Thanks for pointing that out Jake

. When sobers is at his peak, it was like he would beat the entire opposition by himself, funny thing is he actually did it, series after series. Kallis simply didn't instill same fear in opposition. (Considering both of them has identical stats over their careers, these kind of things really matter)

I feel like I am reading youtube comments

Er .. no! He had bloody good series with the ball. Its not like taking 5 wickets in every test, but there were series where he took around 20 wickets.

How many 5 match series did Sobers play over the course of his career? Also the 20 wicket series he played did it involve 4 and 5 matches? From what I know, cbf checking it, Kallis hasn't played as many 4 or 5 match series. When he has played them his batting would be pretty much as good as Sobers I think, but SA's bowling attack was >> WI 60s attack, which is why Kallis probably didn't get as much opportunity to bowl. When he has bowled, he has bowled decently enough.

 

[L Trumper]

If you think Kallis batting is as good as Sobers, well fine. I can't even....., I guess whatever you want to think you can. I am done with this thread

 

[smash84]

If you think Kallis batting is as good as Sobers, well fine. I can't even....., I guess whatever you want to think you can. I am done with this thread

I said pretty much as good. There maybe a gap between the two but there isn't daylight. In case you are thinking along those lines I should point out that the difference between Sobers and Kallis's batting is not as great as the gap between the Don and Sobers batting.......