Is Ricky Ponting a better batsman than Brian Lara?

[Black_Warrior]

Stats aren't the be all and end all of the argument, but they are certainly suggestive. Funnily enough, people say stats aren't important only when it's not in their favour.

Thats because I have already demonstrated to you how stats can be deceiving. Ponting averages 119 in Pakistan. Investigate that a little bit more, you wont make that argument again.

I have said this many times - better batsman to watch DOES NOT mean better batsman. If I tell you that I like watching Afridi bat much more than watching Inzamam bat, would it make Afridi a better batsman than Inzamam?

I was not talking about how attractive Lara looks when he is on song. I think Yuvraj Singh looks more elegant when batting. I was talking about the way he was playing with Kaneria, thats something that the heading "26 runs from 1 over" and a score of 200 would not reveal, thats something you have to watch for yourself.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Ponting's peak from 2003 had no Wasim-Waqar, Ambrose-Walsh, Donald, and he wasnt as good against Murali as Lara was, I dont think anyone can dispute that. The best fast bowlers during Ponting's peak were Shoaib Akhtar, Steve Harmisson, Dale Steyn, Chaminda Vaas.

So Ponting, not even at his peak, scores a century against an Alan Donald on a rampage in 1997. Why hasn't Lara done that? Let's deal with what has happened rather than imagining what would have happened or what could have happened.

Who performed better against Wasim Akram? Ponting
Who performed better against Donald? Ponting

Lara never faced Ambrose and Walsh either so I don't see how you can hold that against Ponting. If Lara has been better against Murali, that's just one bowler. Ponting did quite well against Saqlain Mustaq and Kumble. I am not arguing that Ponting is a better player of spin. Lara was a better player of spin although not by as much as some here would like us to believe. It is also true that Ponting is a superior player of fast bowling. Both watching them bat and stats confirm this.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Point is, 3 test matches is just not enough to judge players of this calibre, not Lara, not Ponting.

And yet 3 tests in Sri Lanka are enough to prove that Lara has the "God given ability to play spin".

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Lara played one series in India in 94... It's stupid to take it as a sample size.

Let's leave out the 2001 series against Sri Lanka too, shall we ? After all, it's stupid to take one series as a sample size.

 

[Prince EWS]

I was not talking about how attractive Lara looks when he is on song. I think Yuvraj Singh looks more elegant when batting. I was talking about the way he was playing with Kaneria, thats something that the heading "26 runs from 1 over" and a score of 200 would not reveal, thats something you have to watch for yourself.

That's where I disagree though. I don't think see that as as a contributing factor to a player's rating as a batsman. If you can score more runs regularly without toying with an average leg spinner, you're a more effective batsman. Batting is about how many; not how.

 

[nightprowler10]

Heh, I wasn't aware regular members could edit polls into their threads after creating them. It obviously has a time limit but it's nice to know anyway.

Horrible GM.

 

[Jono]

That's where I disagree though. I don't think see that as as a contributing factor to a player's rating as a batsman. If you can score more runs regularly without toying with an average leg spinner, you're a more effective batsman. Batting is about how many; not how.

It's actually about "when" you make those "many".

 

[ret]

How many times have I read all this?!

 

[Black_Warrior]

And yet 3 tests in Sri Lanka are enough to prove that Lara has the "God given ability to play spin".

That was an example. It was not just Murali he has dominated, he has dominated most spinners in the world, its just not worth mentioning how he smashed Robin Peterson all over the park in South Africa.

 

[Pratters]

Lara.

LaraLaraLaraLaraLara.

Lara.

Some players just transcend statistical analysis and have to be seen to be fully appreciated. Brian Charles is one of them. The little genius was touched by the hand of God. Happily as his career was in the age of blanket tv coverage future generations will be able to see him at his zenith for themselves.

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[Maximus0723]

Lara.

LaraLaraLaraLaraLara.

Lara.

Some players just transcend statistical analysis and have to be seen to be fully appreciated. Brian Charles is one of them. The little genius was touched by the hand of God. Happily as his career was in the age of blanket tv coverage future generations will be able to see him at his zenith for themselves.

Dhoni sucks.

 

[Ikki]

It's actually about "when" you make those "many".

When and how often.

 

[Ikki]

Thats because I have already demonstrated to you how stats can be deceiving. Ponting averages 119 in Pakistan. Investigate that a little bit more, you wont make that argument again.

That's not really even an argument. Ponting played Pakistan on neutral ground in Sharjah and Sri Lanka IIRC. He averages 85 against them there too. And that series was notoriously difficult for batsmen where many could not even pass 50. Get on to the next point because away from home Ponting has the better record.

There are no stats being manipulated to show that he averages 50+ everywhere bar India (20) and England (44).

I somewhat agree with Streetwise; Ponting has been there done that, with regards to everything Lara has achieved and done it more consistently as well. Get over it, they are both all-time greats of the same class.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

That was an example. It was not just Murali he has dominated, he has dominated most spinners in the world, its just not worth mentioning how he smashed Robin Peterson all over the park in South Africa.

No going back on your words now. You said 3 tests are not enough to judge players of Lara and Ponting's calibre. I am taking your word for it. I have decided that the 3 tests against Murali in 01 are hardly enough to judge Lara.

And Robin Peterson? Is that the dude who spins the ball more than Shane Warne?

 

[Avada Kedavra]

All the people here saying "Lara way ahead" are seriously delusional. All this about transcending stats is good to hear, but unfortunately it's performances and runs that count. Ponting scores over Lara in that aspect.


Courtney Walsh was a great batsman btw. I rate him higher than Lara. Don't give me his stats now. His batting transcends stats

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Courtney Walsh was a great batsman btw. I rate him higher than Lara. Don't give me his stats now. His batting transcends stats

A bit like how your multi-trolling of this forum transcends boredom.


Lara is one of the handful of true batting geniuses in the history of the game.
Fans of cricket should just be grateful to have had two geniuses like Lara and Tendulkar playing in the same era along side Ponting instead of this continual petty decimal point scoring.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

A bit like how your multi-trolling of this forum transcends boredom.


Lara is one of the handful of true batting geniuses in the history of the game.
Fans of cricket should just be grateful to have had two geniuses like Lara and Tendulkar playing in the same era along side Ponting instead of this continual petty decimal point scoring.

You clearly have issues. How about we just be grateful to be watching cricket and stop discussing completely? What is the need for this forum anyway? And who are you to tell me I'm trolling? As far as I am concerned, I was having a discussion about cricket. If you have nothing of value to add to it, go home and play with your barbie dolls.

 

[Uppercut]

The greatest are more talented, more skilled, to put it simply.

And how do you know who is more talented?

By what they can achieve facing the toughest of conditions, bowlers.

Hmm, don't agree. I instead look at the ability to help one's team win test matches. The vast majority of test matches aren't played against top-class attacks on seaming decks. How much a player helps his side in those games is every bit as important as how much he helps them in the one-game-in-30 against a world-class attack.

I've never really understood the CW obsession with scoring runs when batting is especially difficult. They don't inherently help your team more than runs on flat-ish decks against mediocre attacks.

I should probably add, this has nothing to do with the Ponting vs. Lara debate. Unrelated point.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

You clearly have issues. How about we just be grateful to be watching cricket and stop discussing completely? What is the need for this forum anyway? And who are you to tell me I'm trolling? As far as I am concerned, I was having a discussion about cricket. If you have nothing of value to add to it, go home and play with your barbie dolls.

People who rate Lara are delusional and Courtney Walsh is a great batsman.
You're right, excellent point.

 

[Streetwise]

I've never really understood the CW obsession with scoring runs when batting is especially difficult. They don't inherently help your team more than runs on flat-ish decks.

That is a good point, teams win on flat decks so you need batsmen who can bat on flat decks. It dosent matter what the deck is like you still need to outscore the opposition to win a match.