Is Dhoni greatest OdI cricketer off all-time

[Prince EWS]

Even Hogg disagrees.

Meh, Hadlee incorrectly refused to accept that he vastly outbowled his inspiration in Test cricket. Players are biased by this sort of crap even more than we are.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Spoken like someone who never saw him bat.

Klusner is not a Dhoni / Lara / Ponting / Bevan bracket batsman, not even close.. 41 at 90 is a misleading stat.

 

[trundler]

He wasn't Dhoni or Bevan because he averaged much less than them. But his hitting ability was truly ridiculous by the standards of the time. The strike rate doesn't flatter him a bit. Kapil looks like better Maxwell with bat and a better version of Amir with ball if we adjust the stats. That's a world class all-round package but he doesn't break in at #7.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

1. I would have Shakib in a blink of an eye. Proper batsman, proper spinner. That will strengthen batting without compromising the bowling. On other hand if you have a Jayasuriya or A Shane Watson opening the batting and doing 5th bowlers work, you's pick four out and out attacking bowlers in your side with a sixth bowler (Sachin fits the bill nicely).

2. If you are worried with RPI, then Shakib takes the cake without any issues.

3. Selecting Kapil infact compromises batting instead of selecting someone like Kallis, who has similar bowling capabilities, but a solid #3. Shaun Pollock can do the same at #8.

If I wanted to make a World XI I'd go for

Jayasuriya / Shane Watson
Tendulkar
Richards (c)
Kohli
AB DeVilliers
Dhoni (wk)
Klusener
Pollock
Murali
Garner / Wasim
McGrath

line up. Klusener nicely fits in that lineup which has quite a number of bowlers to share 5th bowlers duties.

Sachin - Lara
Viv
Kohli
AB
Dhoni
Kapil
Hadlee
Akram
Saqlain
Garner

5 proper world class bowlers ( 4 ATG + 1ATVG) and 2 part timers.

Pollock definitely a lesser batsman than Kapil and Kallis nowhere near Kapil's bowling ability. Its like Saying Hardik is a better batsman than Jayasuriya.

 

[honestbharani]

He wasn't Dhoni or Bevan because he averaged much less than them. But his hitting ability was truly ridiculous by the standards of the time. The strike rate doesn't flatter him a bit. Kapil looks like better Maxwell with bat and a better version of Amir with ball if we adjust the stats. That's a world class all-round package but he doesn't break in at #7.

Like I said, for me its either Flintoff or Imran at 7, and Kapil or Pollock at 8. Increasingly I am starting to veer towards Imran-Kapil.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

He wasn't Dhoni or Bevan because he averaged much less than them. But his hitting ability was truly ridiculous by the standards of the time. The strike rate doesn't flatter him a bit. Kapil looks like better Maxwell with bat and a better version of Amir with ball if we adjust the stats. That's a world class all-round package but he doesn't break in at #7.

Klusner 41at 90
Lara 40 at 80
Ponting 42 at 80

Klusner better Or Klusner far better?

 

[subshakerz]

Can anyone explain why the assumption is Kapil is a better ODI all-rounder than Imran? Granted, Kapil was a great fielder, but Imran was a league ahead as a bowler and as a batsman more consistent and capable of adapting his game (smashing or nurdling based on the situation).

 

[subshakerz]

Imran's averages are a bit misleading, for most of the career he was a 22/23 averaging world class bowler and 27/28 useful lower order bat, which are still great numbers.

 

[ankitj]

Use ATG team discussion thread for all this. This is about Dhoni.
@Prince EWS agrees

 

[Migara]

Klusner is not a Dhoni / Lara / Ponting / Bevan bracket batsman, not even close.. 41 at 90 is a misleading stat.

Nope he wasn't. Neither is Kapil.

 

[Migara]

Sachin - Lara
Viv
Kohli
AB
Dhoni
Kapil
Hadlee
Akram
Saqlain
Garner

5 proper world class bowlers ( 4 ATG + 1ATVG) and 2 part timers.

Pollock definitely a lesser batsman than Kapil and Kallis nowhere near Kapil's bowling ability. Its like Saying Hardik is a better batsman than Jayasuriya.

I only see four ATG ODI bowlers in that list. Kapil no way in the league of Pollock, Hadlee or Imran with the ball. He is no way in the league of Kallis, Shakib, Watson or Jayasuriya with the bat. Kapil is neither a top class bat nor a bowler in ODI game. He is only a balanced all rounder in Flintoff category.

 

[Burgey]

Garner, McGrath and Pollock are all somewhat similar and super economical bowlers. That's in order of awkward bounce.

They aren’t at all similar as bowlers tbh.

 

[Burgey]

He wasn't Dhoni or Bevan because he averaged much less than them. But his hitting ability was truly ridiculous by the standards of the time. The strike rate doesn't flatter him a bit. Kapil looks like better Maxwell with bat and a better version of Amir with ball if we adjust the stats. That's a world class all-round package but he doesn't break in at #7.

Most over rated LO cricketer since Angelo Mathews a page or so back. Genuinely had a terrific 99 WC (albeit choked when it mattered, a la Tendulkar). Otherwise meh

 

[trundler]

They aren’t at all similar as bowlers tbh.

Pollock and McGrath were a bit and Atherton for example thought so. Garner is a stretch (heh) I'll admit.

 

[honestbharani]

He batted seven, eight and nine ffs. This is why spreadsheets are no match for watching the game or having some semblance of insight to it. What a ****ing woeful post. Pull your head in.

Actually, go to the member login page. Reset your password with your eyes closed, then hit enter. Then log out and try to log back in for the next year and a half before giving up. Horrendous “analysis” of the game. Beyond parody.

I think PFK is arguing the same thing, Burge.

 

[Burgey]

I think PFK is arguing the same thing, Burge.

Yeah. I realised this after I had a rant. But I still want him to delete his account tbh ?

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

I only see four ATG ODI bowlers in that list. Kapil no way in the league of Pollock, Hadlee or Imran with the ball. He is no way in the league of Kallis, Shakib, Watson or Jayasuriya with the bat. Kapil is neither a top class bat nor a bowler in ODI game. He is only a balanced all rounder in Flintoff category.

I said 4 ATG + 1 ATVG
Kapil's bowling is equivalent of Jayasuriya batting if not better.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Can anyone explain why the assumption is Kapil is a better ODI all-rounder than Imran? Granted, Kapil was a great fielder, but Imran was a league ahead as a bowler and as a batsman more consistent and capable of adapting his game (smashing or nurdling based on the situation).

Imran scored 13 out of his 20 x 50+ scores in last 4 years of the career, by the time he was a 35ish avg bowler.

One thing to be noted, Kapil managed to hold number 1 position in allrounder rankings for a straight 10 years. Well almost.

 

[trundler]

Imran scored 13 out of his 20 x 50+ scores in last 4 years of the career, by the time he was a 35ish avg bowler.

One thing to be noted, Kapil managed to hold number 1 position in allrounder rankings for a straight 10 years. Well almost.

And Kapil's batting wasn't much chop in his later years. Imran averaged 30+ till 1986 and also bowled some serious heat. Plenty of overlap there.

 

[h_hurricane]

Imran was a league ahead as a bowler

This is not true at all. You are confusing their tests stats with their ODI stats.