Has Roach just had his "NZ" moment?

[vic_orthdox]

Reckon Anderson will end up being rated similarly to Gillespie/McDermott type of level, ITBT. Very good bowler, but a good level below the top echelon.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Most promising sign for Roach is that he did it in two innings in a row, that sort of replication has been missing a tad.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Yeah, which is why stats dont always tell the whole story... Anderson had a terrible start to his career and it will be held against him, but imo in the last 2 and a half years he's been as good as steyn, and has done well in all sorts of conditions... The first half of his career will rightly be held against him but imo if he carries on like this till the end of his career he will be close to an atg for me. "close to" because of the first half, obviously

No, he hasn't. Please stop perpetrating this myth!

 

[GIMH]

Reckon Anderson will end up being rated similarly to Gillespie/McDermott type of level, ITBT. Very good bowler, but a good level below the top echelon.

Decent comparison, but at least we can sleep easily in that he's already had his Ashes equivalent of Gillespie's 05

 

[Satguru]

No, he hasn't. Please stop perpetrating this myth!

A myth? I dont think its outrageous at all to say that in the last two years, theyve been at pretty much the same level of awesomeness... it still shocks me how underrated anderson is tbh...
He's faced the same batting lineups as steyn and has done a comparable amount of damage,consistently getting top order batsmen out too.
Plus, he's got a damn good inswinger unlike steyn... if steyn had a good insinger, tendulkar wouldnt have got that 146... the way tendulkar was batting with this pads in front of middle and sometimes off, it was just begging for an inswinger which would have trapped him plumb in front... steyn tried it, but just drifted down leg time and again.

Id just like to ask why you dont think that in the last two years at least, steyn and anderson cant be compared?

 

[Gashti]

Steyn can perform in all conditions though, small difference.

 

[Satguru]

Steyn can perform in all conditions though, small difference.

This is the real myth. Anderson has done well in the SC. He;s not destroyed any lineups like Steyn did in India, ill give you that, but hes done a fine job in the UAE and in Sri Lanka. Obviously has adapted well to varied conditions.

EDIT: Im talking abut the last few years obviously, before that he was consistently **** in all conditions

 

[Hurricane]

Steyn is just better than Anderson.

One difference is that Steyn can reverse it better.

 

[Arachnodouche]

A myth? I dont think its outrageous at all to say that in the last two years, theyve been at pretty much the same level of awesomeness... it still shocks me how underrated anderson is tbh...
He's faced the same batting lineups as steyn and has done a comparable amount of damage,consistently getting top order batsmen out too.
Plus, he's got a damn good inswinger unlike steyn... if steyn had a good insinger, tendulkar wouldnt have got that 146... the way tendulkar was batting with this pads in front of middle and sometimes off, it was just begging for an inswinger which would have trapped him plumb in front... steyn tried it, but just drifted down leg time and again.

Id just like to ask why you dont think that in the last two years at least, steyn and anderson cant be compared?

And if Anderson had the extra pace, he'd have something like 40 wickets more in that very same time span.

I don't want to get pedantic though. When you say Anderson hasn't blown away oppositions in the sub continent, it stands for something, doesn't it? Sure he looks good when he is swinging it like a banana, but unless you're providing for atrocious catching and umpiring, when there's such a big difference in stats between two opening bowlers who generally get to play in conditions helpful to their craft, it speaks volumes. I'm not saying he's not good enough to come away with respectable figures in the SC owing to his immaculate control these days, but until he truly blows away opponents, he'll always be playing second fiddle. Because you guys are asking an awful lot of him to live up to, seeing how he's being compared to someone who's already an all time great in many ppls' books.

 

[Cevno]

Yeah, he can be more aggresive and nasty when needed too. Also he has a pretty decent reverse swining inswinger and also a delivery that holds it's line cross seam.

 

[Cevno]

A myth? I dont think its outrageous at all to say that in the last two years, theyve been at pretty much the same level of awesomeness... it still shocks me how underrated anderson is tbh...
He's faced the same batting lineups as steyn and has done a comparable amount of damage,consistently getting top order batsmen out too.
Plus, he's got a damn good inswinger unlike steyn... if steyn had a good insinger, tendulkar wouldnt have got that 146... the way tendulkar was batting with this pads in front of middle and sometimes off, it was just begging for an inswinger which would have trapped him plumb in front... steyn tried it, but just drifted down leg time and again.

Id just like to ask why you dont think that in the last two years at least, steyn and anderson cant be compared?

You're making it sound like he was bowling to a pollard or something. Yes, Sachin had adjusted his technique wrt to the bowler but it's not as simple as bowling one delivery straight and getting him plumb. He was pretty good off his pads too and shifting across to play the balls coming in to him to the leg side.

 

[Satguru]

You're making it sound like he was bowling to a pollard or something. Yes, Sachin had adjusted his technique wrt to the bowler but it's not as simple as bowling one delivery straight and getting him plumb. He was pretty good off his pads too and shifting across to play the balls coming in to him to the leg side.

Yeah, but steyn didnt really challenge him with a really good inswinger... it was usually on his pads which he could flick away easily... didnt get even one good one to go from outside/on off to swing in to middle... that would have tested SRT

 

[Satguru]

And if Anderson had the extra pace, he'd have something like 40 wickets more in that very same time span.

I don't want to get pedantic though. When you say Anderson hasn't blown away oppositions in the sub continent, it stands for something, doesn't it? Sure he looks good when he is swinging it like a banana, but unless you're providing for atrocious catching and umpiring, when there's such a big difference in stats between two opening bowlers who generally get to play in conditions helpful to their craft, it speaks volumes. I'm not saying he's not good enough to come away with respectable figures in the SC owing to his immaculate control these days, but until he truly blows away opponents, he'll always be playing second fiddle. Because you guys are asking an awful lot of him to live up to, seeing how he's being compared to someone who's already an all time great in many ppls' books.

Yeah agreed with most of that. Dont get me wrong, i dont think anderson is anywhere near steyn as far as overall achievements go.

 

[Cevno]

Yeah, but steyn didnt really challenge him with a really good inswinger... it was usually on his pads which he could flick away easily... didnt get even one good one to go from outside/on off to swing in to middle... that would have tested SRT

He Bowled a number of balls cross seamed holding it's angle, and then inswingers with reverse. He was swinging it both ways so well in one spell in which if you recall he hit Harbhajan's stumps without the bail falling.

Sachin was just reading it pretty well and either shifting across to put it away on the leg side or defending it and even getting beaten. Was top class bowling against top class batting.

 

[Satguru]

He Bowled a number of balls cross seamed holding it's angle, and then inswingers with reverse. He was swinging it both ways so well in one spell in which if you recall he hit Harbhajan's stumps without the bail falling.

Sachin was just reading it pretty well and either shifting across to put it away on the leg side or defending it and even getting beaten. Was top class bowling against top class batting.

He doesnt have a good conventional inswinger, which is the point im trying to make... probably doesnt need it most of the times honestly

And seriously that sachin vs steyn battle was one of the best ive seen in a long time... hardly ever have i seen a bowler bowl so many unplayable balls which such regularity in one spell. His outswingers were probably too good to get the edge

 

[lockton2skipper]

are there any more genuine quicks in the carribean other than edwards and roach. i can remember the days when barbados had enough for two test teams and very good ones at that !

 

[Valer]

Yeah, which is why stats dont always tell the whole story... Anderson had a terrible start to his career and it will be held against him, but imo in the last 2 and a half years he's been as good as steyn, and has done well in all sorts of conditions... The first half of his career will rightly be held against him but imo if he carries on like this till the end of his career he will be close to an atg for me. "close to" because of the first half, obviously

Broad has awesome potential but needs to sustain his performance for far longer to even enter the anderson, steyn league imo. And the argument you used for anderson applies for broad too, dont you think?

Broad is almost 5 years younger and has half the crap on his record hence he has a better chance of making up for it.

Gillespie was the exact example I was looking for, he to me isn't an atg.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Young Gillespie used to regularly out-wicket Mcgrath though if I remember correctly..he did pretty well in spite of his frail constitution. And he used to swing that ball at high pace.

 

[Stapel]

Just checked some facts. Since october 2010:

Steyn has 61 wickets at 23,4
Jimmy has 70 wickets at 25,9
Roach has 32 at 27,9 (I had to include him in this thread)

I think Steyn is slightly better than Anderson, but Jimmy isn't far off. IMHO the figures do justice this time .

 

[Prince EWS]

There's already a lengthy on debate on Steyn v Anderson here so it'd be appreciated if anyone wanting to continue that debate post there instead. There's no need to completely derail this thread when we already have a thread on the derailment topic.

As for Roach, I'm really still not much of a fan at all. No doubt he's bowled well in this Test match just gone though.