Fourth best spinner

[kyear2]

Surprised I'm one of only two guys to vote for Tayfield but I get it, it's from the fossil era and no one here has watched him obviously. Great record though, and some amazing match winning spells.

Gibbs' career is underrated on here. He had an enormously long career which hides his great feats under that meh overall career average a bit. For the first decade or so of his career, his numbers were as good as any spinner ever. Wonder how he would be remembered if he retired after 1968 when his record stood at 183 wickets @24, most of it in a very flat and slow era.

Also feel Chandrasekhar is a sneaky solid candidate here even though he wasnt in the options, because of his memorable match winning spells overseas.

All three points on point.

And also voted for Tayfield.

 

[Prince EWS]

Surprised I'm one of only two guys to vote for Tayfield but I get it, it's from the fossil era and no one here has watched him obviously. Great record though, and some amazing match winning spells.

Gibbs' career is underrated on here. He had an enormously long career which hides his great feats under that meh overall career average a bit. For the first decade or so of his career, his numbers were as good as any spinner ever. Wonder how he would be remembered if he retired after 1968 when his record stood at 183 wickets @24, most of it in a very flat and slow era.

Also feel Chandrasekhar is a sneaky solid candidate here even though he wasnt in the options, because of his memorable match winning spells overseas.

I'd have Tayfield fifth.

I used to buy into the Laker home grounds so spinny thing a lot more than I do now, but that's mainly just because when I standardised for pitch conditions Ashwin and Jadeja got BTFO but Laker only had a mild hit. It made me think it may be a bit of an exaggeration/urban legend but I should probably go through scorecards and reports more individually. (He's actually still ranked below Tayfield on that list though )

 

[kyear2]

I'd have Tayfield fifth.

I used to buy into the Laker home grounds so spinny thing a lot more than I do now, but that's mainly just because when I standardised for pitch conditions Ashwin and Jadeja got BTFO but Laker only had a mild hit. It made me think it may be a bit of an exaggeration/urban legend but I should probably go through scorecards and reports more individually. (He's actually still ranked below Tayfield on that list though )

Join us.

Tayfield

 

[Prince EWS]

Join us.

Tayfield

If I followed that list I'd have to cast a write in ballot for Briggs but Tayfield would be next, then Laker, then Benaud.

 

[kyear2]

If I followed that list I'd have to cast a write in ballot for Briggs but Tayfield would be next, then Laker, then Benaud.

So why vote Laker over Tayfield?

 

[Prince EWS]

So why vote Laker over Tayfield?

I've changed for you.

 

[Coronis]

So yeah I think most of us(?) agree that its pretty close between multiple candidates.

Ashwin I’m not sure about so I’m not including him in this ranking, I do expect him to top the others by career end.

Laker
Grimmett
Tayfield
Verity

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

I think Verity gets a little bit overrated b/c of the whole had to bowl vs Bradman thing. I think him and Grimmett are very close, but both have numbers inflated by SA (Grimmett) and India (Verity). Laker is my choice for now, Jadeja or Lyon could still surpass all 3.

Very very unfair to compare SA and Ind batting lineup. SA were more than a formidable batting lineup to exclude from Grimmett’s record. Verity himself averaged near 26 against them. Just that Grum was too good to make his record against them like they were minnows.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Important to consider the batting lineup Grum averaged 32 against was probably the strongest ever fielded. Can’t except a slow spinner to do better than he did. Warne, Murali both got schooled as well.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Clarrie Grimmett averages 32+ against literally the only respectable team he played against. His averages are hugely pumped against minnows of WI and SA.

I would like to know how a batting lineup consisting of Nourse, Mitchell, Rowan, Vijolean, Cameron is considered minnows? Also Gave Headley lots of troubles as well knocking Bradman over for more times than anyone.

 

[Line and Length]

The thing about Laker is that he benefitted from dustbowl home pitches arguably more than guys like Herath/Ashwin have throughout his career. Casuals wouldn't think that because it's England which is more associated with seam and swing, but it's true.

While conceding Laker benefited from helpful wickets, especially when he took his 19 wickets, his performance needs to be looked at in context.
On the same pitch, in the same game, Benaud took 2-123. Ian Johnson 4-151 and Tony Lock 1-106.

@capt_Luffy says "Jim Laker only played 4 matches in Australia" yet in those matches he took 15 wickets @ 21.20 .

When looking at Test careers, it is fashionable to compare away records. Laker played about 37% of his Tests away from home and, in doing so, took 58 wickets @28.60 while Ashwin played about 32% of his games away from the SC taking 99 wickets @ 34.48 . But if we take away his efforts in the WI (who, in recent times, are regarded as 'minnows') his figures are 67 wickets @ 41.71 .

Ashwin away from the SC is hardly worth mentioning in the same breath as Laker and others discussed here.

 

[kyear2]

Very very unfair to compare SA and Ind batting lineup. SA were more than a formidable batting lineup to exclude from Grimmett’s record. Verity himself averaged near 26 against them. Just that Grum was too good to make his record against them like they were minnows.

SA were minnows

 

[kyear2]

While conceding Laker benefited from helpful wickets, especially when he took his 19 wickets, his performance needs to be looked at in context.
On the same pitch, in the same game, Benaud took 2-123. Ian Johnson 4-151 and Tony Lock 1-106.

@capt_Luffy says "Jim Laker only played 4 matches in Australia" yet in those matches he took 15 wickets @ 21.20 .

When looking at Test careers, it is fashionable to compare away records. Laker played about 37% of his Tests away from home and, in doing so, took 58 wickets @28.60 while Ashwin played about 32% of his games away from the SC taking 99 wickets @ 34.48 . But if we take away his efforts in the WI (who, in recent times, are regarded as 'minnows') his figures are 67 wickets @ 41.71 .

Ashwin away from the SC is hardly worth mentioning in the same breath as Laker and others discussed here.

This, a 1000 times this.

 

[capt_Luffy]

While conceding Laker benefited from helpful wickets, especially when he took his 19 wickets, his performance needs to be looked at in context.
On the same pitch, in the same game, Benaud took 2-123. Ian Johnson 4-151 and Tony Lock 1-106.

@capt_Luffy says "Jim Laker only played 4 matches in Australia" yet in those matches he took 15 wickets @ 21.20 .

When looking at Test careers, it is fashionable to compare away records. Laker played about 37% of his Tests away from home and, in doing so, took 58 wickets @28.60 while Ashwin played about 32% of his games away from the SC taking 99 wickets @ 34.48 . But if we take away his efforts in the WI (who, in recent times, are regarded as 'minnows') his figures are 67 wickets @ 41.71 .

Ashwin away from the SC is hardly worth mentioning in the same breath as Laker and others discussed here.

Ashwin also has a really great record in Sri Lanka against a pretty strong line-up, that often gets overlooked. Kumble doesn't, Murali doesn't in India. Let's just say away from England Laker hardly has a record. Also, Jim Laker played in only one tour of Australia, played a grand total of 4 games, at his very peak and that was because the selectors felt he won't be much useful there before. He also had his only successful WI tour and SA over that very same span of time; and considering everything his numbers in WI and SA are very modest, but not better than of Ashwin in England. The SENA pitches now, especially England and back then; I don't think you will say are exactly the same....WI themselves used to play with 3 spinners. From his debut to retirement, Jim Laker missed around half of the total games England played, and most weren't for injuries (he played 46 of 92 games). Also, Ashwin has played roughly 42% of all his games away, and averages around 30. If you want to compare his record in SENA only, then he played roughly 40% of his games vs them in their home. His record in England is fine, as is in Australia on a deeper inspection (atleast to an extent) and is only really poor in South Africa.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I would like to know how a batting lineup consisting of Nourse, Mitchell, Rowan, Vijolean, Cameron is considered minnows? Also Gave Headley lots of troubles as well knocking Bradman over for more times than anyone.

Cameron wasn't there, neither was Viljoen (though I don't think he matters much). Mitchell and Rowan used to bat middle order and weren't all that effective yet. Nourse was heavy lifting, AND I DIDN'T CALLED SA MINNOWS. I CALLED WI.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

SA were minnows

That batting lineup isn’t minnow. Bowling- Yes, Batting- No. Verity himself averaged 26 including 29 in SA where Grum got 44 Wkts at 14.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Pointing out facts is bitching now? He has little away record because he wasn't selected. How can you be one of the top 5 spinners ever and are second option away.

All I said. But bitching, cool.

Look, if you don't like the word bitching, I am sorry. Really thought it would get censored... But well. I don't have a problem with you complaining about Ashwin, my problem was you were only complaining about Ashwin and how he could not be among top 5 spinners, simultaneously ignoring the holes and problems in those of others.

 

[Coronis]

Look, if you don't like the word bitching, I am sorry. Really thought it would get censored... But well. I don't have a problem with you complaining about Ashwin, my problem was you were only complaining about Ashwin and how he could not be among top 5 spinners, simultaneously ignoring the holes and problems in those of others.

Nah bitch is super mild.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Cameron wasn't there, neither was Viljoen (though I don't think he matters much). Mitchell and Rowan used to bat middle order and weren't all that effective yet. Nourse was heavy lifting, AND I DIDN'T CALLED SA MINNOWS. I CALLED WI.

That’s 5 matches out which still leaves Grimmett with 182 Wkts @25.48. Then surely Ashwin’s figures against minnow WI needs to be excluded as well plus of minnows of all spinners.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Nah bitch is super mild.

No I didn't called Kyear bitch, just him complaining too much about a single player a little annoying.... I should had used another word.