Fourth best spinner

[capt_Luffy]

That’s 5 matches out which still leaves Grimmett with 182 Wkts @25.48. Then surely Ashwin’s figures against minnow WI needs to be excluded as well plus of minnows of all spinners.

That still includes his record against WI. Against England (the only serious opposition) Grum averages 32+. Ashwin without WI is still around 24.5. On removing SL as well, it's still sub 25...

 

[Line and Length]

@capt_Luffy Your attempts to belittle Laker's performances in Australia whilst claiming Ashwin's record in Australia "is fine" on "deeper inspection", don't work.

Let's look at the facts:

Laker 4 Tests 15 wickets @ 21.20 ; S.R. 68.13 ; E.R. 1.87
Ashwin 10 Tests @ 39 wickets ; S.R. 86.26; E.R. 2.93

The only area where Ashwin approaches Laker's efficiency is in WPM.

 

[capt_Luffy]

@capt_Luffy Your attempts to belittle Laker's performances in Australia whilst claiming Ashwin's record in Australia "is fine" on "deeper inspection", don't work.

Let's look at the facts:

Laker 4 Tests 15 wickets @ 21.20 ; S.R. 68.13 ; E.R. 1.87
Ashwin 10 Tests @ 39 wickets ; S.R. 86.26; E.R. 2.93

The only area where Ashwin approaches Laker's efficiency is in WPM.

And that he got India to win 2 series.... But believe me, Ashwin's record in Australia is pretty mid. And I don't have any qualms with Laker's performance there to begin with, it was always his sample size there; and had it been England didn't toured often or even had a quality spinning all-rounder, I would had shut up. But as it stands, Laker literally has an identical record in Australia with Jadeja because selectors thought an offie won't work; and I don't think of his record there as highly as others, even like Kumble. Reading my replies here, it almost feels like I think Ashwin is close to Warne and Murali; he's not. Very far from it. He definitely is in the tier of Laker, Grimmett, Verity, Tayfield, Gibbs, Kumble; and arguably Underwood, Bedi, Benaud and Chandrashekhar.Heck, I am not even sure whether I would rank Laker<Ashwin in my spinners rankings (last time I didn't) and kinda voted Ashwin just for Kyear2.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

That still includes his record against WI. Against England (the only serious opposition) Grum averages 32+. Ashwin without WI is still around 24.5. On removing SL as well, it's still sub 25...

That excludes Grum’s record against WI, he only played 5 matches against them. If records against only legitimate lineup is to be counted then shouldn’t Warne’s and Murali record against Ind be their only measuring yardstick?

That England lineup Grum bowled to is probably the strongest batting lineup to ever assemble.

England beat Australia, England won by 675 runs

ENG 122 & 66 vs AUS 521 & 342/8d - England won by 675 runs in Brisbane, England tour of Australia 1928, November 30 - December 05, 1928

www.espncricinfo.com

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...-vs-england-1st-test-62562/live-cricket-score

 

[Coronis]

That excludes Grum’s record against WI, he only played 5 matches against them. If records against only legitimate lineup is to be counted then shouldn’t Warne’s and Murali record against Ind be their only measuring yardstick?

That England lineup Grum bowled to is probably the strongest batting lineup to ever assemble.

England beat Australia, England won by 675 runs

ENG 122 & 66 vs AUS 521 & 342/8d - England won by 675 runs in Brisbane, England tour of Australia 1928, November 30 - December 05, 1928

www.espncricinfo.com

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...-vs-england-1st-test-62562/live-cricket-score

rip Jack Gregory’s career

 

[kyear2]

Look, if you don't like the word bitching, I am sorry. Really thought it would get censored... But well. I don't have a problem with you complaining about Ashwin, my problem was you were only complaining about Ashwin and how he could not be among top 5 spinners, q.

I try to keep it civil, but doesn't bother me. I've been come after much harder, mostly by the same person(s), but hey.

And you've been doing quite the job doing that yourself.

There's a reason we don't rank Sir Everton Weekes (amazing slip fielder as well btw) among the top 10 batting greats, the players / establishment of the time, Bradman included thought he was amazing, better than Headley (guess they didn't have stat guru), same with Sir Clyde Walcott. They're call HTBs, flat track bullies etc.

Don't see how Ash is any different tbh.

 

[kyear2]

No I didn't called Kyear bitch, just him complaining too much about a single player a little annoying.... I should had used another word.

Every other post in this thread is basically you anointing him, thought some balance was in order.

If every pitch in the Caribbean was a Sabina and out fast bowlers were rested while touring, I would treat them the same way.

 

[capt_Luffy]

That excludes Grum’s record against WI, he only played 5 matches against them. If records against only legitimate lineup is to be counted then shouldn’t Warne’s and Murali record against Ind be their only measuring yardstick?

That England lineup Grum bowled to is probably the strongest batting lineup to ever assemble.

England beat Australia, England won by 675 runs

ENG 122 & 66 vs AUS 521 & 342/8d - England won by 675 runs in Brisbane, England tour of Australia 1928, November 30 - December 05, 1928

www.espncricinfo.com

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...-vs-england-1st-test-62562/live-cricket-score

I didn't meant only the strongest line up; but I don't think you will argue that WI and SA weren't really competing with Australia or England to be world champions. England were challengers to Australia, as were SA; and I don't think you could say the same for WI and SA back then. In the first series Grum played vs SA, Nourse wasn't there and Herbie Taylor was washed up. Bruce Mitchell was still emerging and was pretty much their only reliable bat. The second series had a better line-up, with Nourse, Mitchell and Rowan; and O'Reilly also took them for a washing. As I said, Grum's record in that SA tour shouldn't be wrote off, and while you gave literally the strongest line-up assembled (no seriously, Hobbs and Hammond hardly played together, it's not a proper representation), he still bowled against a stacked English line-up in pretty dead pitches. And that's why he most definitely is in my top 7.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I try to keep it civil, but doesn't bother me. I've been come after much harder, mostly by the same person(s), but hey.

And you've been doing quite the job doing that yourself.

There's a reason we don't rank Sir Everton Weekes (amazing slip fielder as well btw) among the top 10 batting greats, the players / establishment of the time, Bradman included thought he was amazing, better than Headley (guess they didn't have stat guru), same with Sir Clyde Walcott. They're call HTBs, flat track bullies etc.

Don't see how Ash is any different tbh.

And who is ranking Ash in the Top 10 bowlers exactly? And I think you would still have sir Weekes and Walcott in top 25ish... Right?

Every other post in this thread is basically you anointing him, thought some balance was in order.

If every pitch in the Caribbean was a Sabina and out fast bowlers were rested while touring, I would treat them the same way.

Look man, my response on Ashwin was based on yours. And I really didn't came after you in particular, I think? As I said, I have given adequate reasoning for each the spinners' faults. And once again, I think I had been a little mean, so I am sorry.

 

[shortpitched713]

So yeah I think most of us(?) agree that its pretty close between multiple candidates.

Ashwin I’m not sure about so I’m not including him in this ranking, I do expect him to top the others by career end.

Laker
Grimmett
Tayfield
Verity

There's no chance, that by career end, Ashwin's historical impact will be less than any of the above names.

Then why not just vote for him?

Also, I don't understand why y'all are putting so much emphasis on old time spinners only, when batsmanship simply wasn't as good before modern eras ( barring Bradman ).

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

A mod to add Hartley to the poll plz.

 

[Coronis]

There's no chance, that by career end, Ashwin's historical impact will be less than any of the above names.

Then why not just vote for him?

Also, I don't understand why y'all are putting so much emphasis on old time spinners only, when batsmanship simply wasn't as good before modern eras ( barring Bradman ).

Of course there is.

 

[kyear2]

A mod to add Hartley to the poll plz.

Didn't this argument come up earlier about making it easier for all spinners?

 

[kyear2]

Of course there is.

Again, at one point a lot of people believed Ponting would end his career at worse, 2nd best behind Bradman.

**** happens, perceptions change.

 

[howitzer]

A mod to add Hartley to the poll plz.

@Prince EWS to actually do this and expect the initial requester to vote this way.

 

[Prince EWS]

@Prince EWS to actually do this and expect the initial requester to vote this way.

RIS is no stranger to a joke vote so he wouldn't really see it as a punishment.

 

[howitzer]

RIS is no stranger to a joke vote so he wouldn't really see it as a punishment.

Funny thing is, I might be tempted to join him. Could be the biggest of big brain moments Ashwin has ever had, given it would bring him back close.

 

[shortpitched713]

There's a reason we don't rank Sir Everton Weekes (amazing slip fielder as well btw) among the top 10 batting greats,

 

[Coronis]

Personally I never liked his hairstyle or moustache in his cricinfo pic. Thats enough for me.

 

[Daemon]

A mod to add Hartley to the poll plz.

Take it to the best spinner thread