Fascinating Stuff on Murali's action

[SJS]

Here is an interesting opinion on Murali's action - from one of the game's most blunt and out spoken ex players and an ex - Aussie Captain at that !!

Chappell on Murali's action

 

[Lostman]

Some others

Part 1
Part 2

 

[Himannv]

Fairly old news. He chucks. The fact that he can't straighten his arm completely proves nothing - unless he bowls in a Test Match with the brace on.

Oh, fine and dandy. If he has to wear a brace while bowling, then everyone else in the cricketing world should as well.

 

[silentstriker]

Either you believe the data or you believe whatever your preconceptions and delusions. All the information is out, I don't think anyone will change their minds.

 

[slippyslip]

I remember watching a video of Murali being tested - maybe in Perth at the Uni of WA. His technique was being tested.

What I've always wondered about these videos and tests is how do you guarantee with 100% certainty that is he bowling to the same level, intensity and quality as he does in a big match? If you were being tested on technique would you focus on bowling great quality deliveries into a net or just pull back a bit and focus on being technically correct?

Its like people saying Murali cant chuck because he cant fully extend his arm. So what? If I put my arm in a flex position, like body builders do, then extend it back out so the top half of my arm and forearm form a right angle at the elbow, I've bent my arm 90° without ever straightening my arm.

So what if he cant straighten his arm?

And the day Murali bowls with an arm brace in an international match and performs to the same standard is the day I believe he has never chucked.

 

[Richard]

Replace "Murali" with "every bowler in history" and you've a point.

 

[Top_Cat]

What I've always wondered about these videos and tests is how do you guarantee with 100% certainty that is he bowling to the same level, intensity and quality as he does in a big match? If you were being tested on technique would you focus on bowling great quality deliveries into a net or just pull back a bit and focus on being technically correct?

Correlation of match speeds with net speeds (arm and ball) gives you plenty of info about how much the bowler is putting in. Plus, with some acceptance of error, it's possible to vaguely compare analysis from match video with net video collected in controlled conditions. Scientists dealing with humans are well-versed in dealing with gaming in an experiment.

The most important factor, though, is probably human nature. There's no advantage to be gained in faking it because it's probably going to be fairly obvious that you are. Even if you manage to pull it off, at the first sign of trouble in a match, you can be yanked right back out of the action for more testing (ask Aaron Bird or Johan Botha). You're better off being honest and if you're not legal, going through the remedial training than trying to fake it or you just draw more unwanted attention to yourself.

Its like people saying Murali cant chuck because he cant fully extend his arm. So what? If I put my arm in a flex position, like body builders do, then extend it back out so the top half of my arm and forearm form a right angle at the elbow, I've bent my arm 90° without ever straightening my arm.

So what if he cant straighten his arm?

The advantage in chucking comes from flex/extension in the delivery. A bloke like Murali with a permanently bent arm doesn't get an advantage from that so there's no reason to penalise someone on that basis alone. If anything, it's a distinct disadvantage. Luckily he has a freakishly bendy wrist which does a lot of the work.

All I can say is give it a try. If you have it in mind to bowl with a slightly bent arm and remain legal, you'll see there's no advantage in it. You'll certainly find it much harder to get good batters out than if you just try bowling naturally. Blokes who say they can bowl like Murali and ping it down with big spin, most of the time, are extending or flexing way beyond the 15 degree limit.

 

[slippyslip]

Correlation of match speeds with net speeds (arm and ball) gives you plenty of info about how much the bowler is putting in. Plus, with some acceptance of error, it's possible to vaguely compare analysis from match video with net video collected in controlled conditions. Scientists dealing with humans are well-versed in dealing with gaming in an experiment.

Subjective and arbitrary. Murali can bowl at the same speed but not put as much spin on the ball. Plus being hooked up with wires is hardly conducive to effective bowling. Also, in a lot of these test Murali was bowling in different conditions. Hardly match like conditions.

Scientists are well-versed in their equipment, not in playing cricket. Cricketers are well versed in cricket but not science.

The most important factor, though, is probably human nature. There's no advantage to be gained in faking it because it's probably going to be fairly obvious that you are. Even if you manage to pull it off, at the first sign of trouble in a match, you can be yanked right back out of the action for more testing (ask Aaron Bird or Johan Botha). You're better off being honest and if you're not legal, going through the remedial training than trying to fake it or you just draw more unwanted attention to yourself.

You're just speculating there. And Murali has been back numerous to have his technique evaluated.

The advantage in chucking comes from flex/extension in the delivery. A bloke like Murali with a permanently bent arm doesn't get an advantage from that so there's no reason to penalise someone on that basis alone. If anything, it's a distinct disadvantage. Luckily he has a freakishly bendy wrist which does a lot of the work.

Bending the arm still helps even if you dont extend to 180°

All I can say is give it a try. If you have it in mind to bowl with a slightly bent arm and remain legal, you'll see there's no advantage in it. You'll certainly find it much harder to get good batters out than if you just try bowling naturally. Blokes who say they can bowl like Murali and ping it down with big spin, most of the time, are extending or flexing way beyond the 15 degree limit.

Bent, straight, it doesnt matter. Bending more than 15° is illegal. I find it hard people believe that Murali has never bowled an illegal delivery.

Darrell Hair will always remain a legend in my book.

 

[Richard]

I find it hard people believe that Murali has never bowled an illegal delivery.

That's an utterly ridiculous comment. Anyone who has bowled more than a handful of overs in organised cricket will have bowled an illegal delivery - and that's illegal by the new laws which reflect reality. No human eye can possibly tell the difference between 13° and 16°, and if anyone seriously believes there is a bowler who's never straightened his arm by more than 15° as long as he's been bowling, in all the multiple thousands of deliveries bowlers bowl, then they're kidding themselves. Apart from making every bowler wear a brace every game, there is no way that that will ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever be assured.

Under the old laws which reflected the false ideals of the day, just about every delivery was illegal, while no-one realised - the ideal was that the elbow had to flex zero degrees throughout the action, which has probably never happened in the whole time anyone has been bowling overarm (the old underarm laws did not preclude it). It's almost impossible, and if you think about how little 1° is you'll realise how absurd the old laws were.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I have adoubt. I dont know why chucking is so seriously taken as an offence in cricket when it is spinners who are chucking. I mean, chucking was outlawed basically because it helped the "fast" bowler to bowl at incredible speeds and dangerous for the batsman. However I don't understand how that applies to a spinner. If Murali is chucking and hence getting turn, why not make it the law and let spinners get that amount of turn by chucking as well?

I think you just answered that yourself, because you get a lot more turn. I can't turn a ball bowling off-spin (or leg-spin for that matter) to save my life. If I chuck it though it turns a mile.

 

[Son Of Coco]

The advantage in chucking comes from flex/extension in the delivery. A bloke like Murali with a permanently bent arm doesn't get an advantage from that so there's no reason to penalise someone on that basis alone. If anything, it's a distinct disadvantage. Luckily he has a freakishly bendy wrist which does a lot of the work.

Murali can still do this though, just from a different position. If he did it would look blatantly obvious too I'd suspect given his starting position.

 

[Migara]

Subjective and arbitrary. Murali can bowl at the same speed but not put as much spin on the ball. Plus being hooked up with wires is hardly conducive to effective bowling. Also, in a lot of these test Murali was bowling in different conditions. Hardly match like conditions.

You are trying to prove human eye is superior that super slow-mo cameras?

You're just speculating there. And Murali has been back numerous to have his technique evaluated.

Because it was judged by naked eye, which is a piss poor equipment to judge high speed motions. Every time, he was cleared to to various reasons, showuing how poor was human eye judgement.

Bending the arm still helps even if you dont extend to 180°

To every body, isn't it?

Bent, straight, it doesnt matter. Bending more than 15° is illegal. I find it hard people believe that Murali has never bowled an illegal delivery.

Replace Murali with McGrath / Lee / Pollock or any anme you like

Darrell Hair will always remain a legend in my book

A book which regarded as rubbish by most

 

[Top_Cat]

Subjective and arbitrary. Murali can bowl at the same speed but not put as much spin on the ball. Plus being hooked up with wires is hardly conducive to effective bowling. Also, in a lot of these test Murali was bowling in different conditions. Hardly match like conditions.

Scientists are well-versed in their equipment, not in playing cricket. Cricketers are well versed in cricket but not science.

Doesn't mean it's wrong. Seriously, have you read the UWA report? I gather by the 'hooked up with wires' comment you haven't because the sensors attached were wireless. Even then, the sensors weren't the only measurement tool used.

And Murali has been back numerous to have his technique evaluated.

What's your point? He's been cleared every time, other than his doosra which was picked up and evaluated. The system works.

Darrell Hair will always remain a legend in my book.

TBH, I sorta agree with this. It brought attention to chucking, defined it better and kicked off the development of guidelines/testing with science to back it up instead of "Hmmm, he looks like he chucks". Instead of bowlers being shunned and hounded out of the game, the problems are corrected or the bowler keeps getting banned if they keep at it. Nothing but a good thing in my view.

 

[silentstriker]

Subjective and arbitrary. Murali can bowl at the same speed but not put as much spin on the ball.

They aren't morons. He had to put the same spin, bounce, carry etc. Basically, he had to recreate each of the deliveries in question - multiple times - from a match situation.

You act like a professor of biomechanics will say "OK mate, so just send this down at the other end at your leisure and we'll be done here."

 

[Jono]

People are going to believe what they want. Just let them and leave it.

Calling Murali a chucker is the same as denying evolution

 

[Anil]

People are going to believe what they want. Just let them and leave it.

yeah there is nothing constructive about this argument...people are sharply divided and will continue to be...

 

[Migara]

Calling Murali a chucker is the same as denying evolution

That was a good one!

 

[Streetwise]

edited

 

[Stapel]

I love the way he doesn't say anything the entire time as opposed to Slater who doesn't stop once given the chance.

&

Murali is such a legend. Didnt' say a word throughout the whole video.

I was wondering: Does he speak English?

 

[Spark]

&



I was wondering: Does he speak English?

yeah, and pretty well too.

YouTube - Understanding Muttiah 'Murali' Muralitharan