Eoin Morgan

[Furball]

Well fine use a different example, Giggs perhaps (went to my old school for a year or two that man)? There probably wouldn't be as strong a feeling because let's face it, there aren't too many Welsh people. But if he had already been representing Wales for years then decided he wanted a taste of the biggest stage and played for England, surely it wouldn't seem right?

The only way that's comparible is if Wales were only able to play 7 a side internationals.

 

[oitoitoi]

What happens if after a year England decide that Morgan isn't particularly good after all, and discard him from their future plans? Ireland are deprived of arguably their top talent, and Morgan is denied the opportunity to play at World Cups and in ODIs vs top sides - and that's not an ideal solution at all.

A year's optimistic, personally I think he'll be discarded and forgotten by the end of the summer, he's not that good and there a lot of players on the county circuit of similar ability. The whole thing's just a terrible waste. Especially after Ireland's excellent performance at the qualifiers.

 

[oitoitoi]

The only way that's comparible is if Wales were only able to play 7 a side internationals.

Ok I don't know enough about football to find a player to use in this example but you know what I mean.

 

[Furball]

Ok I don't know enough about football to find a player to use in this example but you know what I mean.

I know what you mean, but football isn't comparable as every nation in the world has a chance of qualifying for the World Cup and playing against the best nations.

There's only 9 countries who currently play Test Cricket, which means that talented associate players will always look to their neighbours.

 

[Richard]

'The United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland as well as Republic of Ireland (also includes Scotland and Wales)'

The kit would be blue, white, red, light green, dark green, orange with the badge being a lion and dragon with ginger hair and kilts eating haggis and spuds while drinking guinness.

Wouldn't bother me. I'd keep supporting it because it's the team I've always supported, I don't support it because of its name.

I also like a nice multi-coloured kit.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I know what you mean, but football isn't comparable as every nation in the world has a chance of qualifying for the World Cup and playing against the best nations.

There's only 9 countries who currently play Test Cricket, which means that talented associate players will always look to their neighbours.

Plus with football (and rugby union now) once you've played for a full national side in an official game there's no switching allegiances.

 

[oitoitoi]

Plus with football (and rugby union now) once you've played for a full national side in an official game there's no switching allegiances.

Why the hell does cricket not have that rule?

 

[Furball]

Why the hell does cricket not have that rule?

Because football and rugby union only have 1 set of rules.

There's 3 different types of international cricket - Tests, ODIs and T20Is.

The ICC is trying to expand the game. If they had such a rule, then they would be hindering their aims, because any half decent young Irish player, or Dutch player etc. would sit and wait on an England call up instead of playing for their respective nations.

 

[GIMH]

I'm not sure but I don't think many sports aside from footy have that rule. Reckon in order to have a rule like that you have to be truly global.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Because football and rugby union only have 1 set of rules.

There's 3 different types of international cricket - Tests, ODIs and T20Is.

The ICC is trying to expand the game. If they had such a rule, then they would be hindering their aims, because any half decent young Irish player, or Dutch player etc. would sit and wait on an England call up instead of playing for their respective nations.

All that is true, I'm sure, but equally there's currently nothing to stop England selecting (say) Saqlain Mushtaq if we were so minded either.

 

[oitoitoi]

Because football and rugby union only have 1 set of rules.

There's 3 different types of international cricket - Tests, ODIs and T20Is.

The ICC is trying to expand the game. If they had such a rule, then they would be hindering their aims, because any half decent young Irish player, or Dutch player etc. would sit and wait on an England call up instead of playing for their respective nations.

Your right and that's horribly, horribly depressing. What happened to boyhood dreams of representing one's country?

 

[oitoitoi]

All that is true, I'm sure, but equally there's currently nothing to stop England selecting (say) Saqlain Mushtaq if we were so minded either.

Exactly, and considering England's current one day spin options it mightn't be a million miles from reality.

 

[Richard]

All that is true, I'm sure, but equally there's currently nothing to stop England selecting (say) Saqlain Mushtaq if we were so minded either.

There certainly is - Saqlain being a pretty poor-quality bowler, for starters.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I'm not sure but I don't think many sports aside from footy have that rule. Reckon in order to have a rule like that you have to be truly global.

Union definitely does and think basketball does too because I vaguely remember Steve Nash (T*ttenham supporting scumbucket that he is) saying he'd like to play for GB in 2012 (his old man is English), but can't because he's already played for Canadialand.

 

[oitoitoi]

There certainly is - Saqlain being a pretty poor-quality bowler, for starters.

Well Saqlain pre-injuries. His ODI record is incredible. Test record ain't bad either. Can't believe he's still just 32.

 

[Richard]

Well Saqlain pre-injuries. His ODI record is incredible. Test record ain't bad either. Can't believe he's still just 32.

I'm extremely sceptical that he is - I reckon more 36-37. Either way, he's not been much of a bowler for a large number of years now. The succession of injuries turned him from damn good into very, very moderate indeed. He's barely even a county-standard bowler these days.

And what's more, another thing stopping him from playing for England - he's an ICL player.

Graeme Swann is a massively superior spinner right now - as well as a far better batsman and a competent rather than incompetent fielder (Saqlain was never a very good fielder and he's absolutely awful now after all the knee injuries).

 

[Furball]

Your right and that's horribly, horribly depressing. What happened to boyhood dreams of representing one's country?

Because players will want to play at the highest level possible, something that's not possible unless you happen to have been born in England, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, the islands which make up the West Indies, Sri Lanka, India, Pakistan or Bangladesh.

I'm Scottish, and if I thought I was good enough to play Tests for England, if I was given the choice of only ever representing Scotland or England, then I'd pick England, no questions asked.

 

[Prince EWS]

It's definitely a shame for Irish cricket, and I do have mixed feelings about this kind of thing happening. On one hand it's good to see that there is an avenue for Irish players to play at the highest level but, obviously, that they lose such players for their associate endeavours is undesirable. The fact that they're starting to produce players of interest like this is a testament to them though and this is something that will work in their favour as they push to gain Test status.

I certainly don't blame Joyce or Morgan and I actually wouldn't blame England if not for the circumstances in which they've taken both players. Joyce and Morgan have agreed to play for England to give them a chance at playing Test cricket - no other reason. That's fine, but England taking such a laissez-faire attitude to picking such players in a few of Mickey Mouse limited overs tournaments - some of which Ireland ironically compete in themselves - and then not picking them in Tests anyway really does grind my gears. Forgetting the fact that he's Irish for a second, I actually think Morgan is a poor pick which makes this even more frustrating.

Here's Morgan's record for Middlesex:

[B]Format		Matches	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	100	50	Ct	St[/B]

First Class	30	50	8	1604	137*	38.19 	4	8	25	1
List A		40	38	5	1153	100  	34.93 	2	6	9	0
Twenty20	30	28	2	628	66  	24.15 	0	2	14	0

Make no bones about it - that's a really impressive and promising county record for a 22 year old batsman. However, there's nothing in that which suggests he's going to be an asset to England's Twenty20 Championship campaign. They've picked him as a fringe player (undeservedly ahead of several others, really) for a Twenty20 tournament with no intention of getting him anywhere near the Test team in the near future. He's been picked on potential for the experience which really shows little perspective of the situation. Hell, if they'd picked someone else 'for the experience' they could have just monitored Morgan's progress for Ireland in the tournament anyway and got an extra player's worth of experience out of it.

 

[Richard]

STOP THE PRESS: selectors make error by mixing-up different forms of the game.

 

[Prince EWS]

STOP THE PRESS: selectors make error by mixing-up different forms of the game.

That actually wasn't my point. Even if it was a 5-day of 50-over tournament, there'd still be better candidates. He's a very promising player but picking him now is almost 'cruel' on several levels.