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England Wicket-Keeper Dilemma

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
Read started his career very ordinarily. His year-by-year stats would suggest he's gone from strength to strength as far as batting concerned. Mind he started young.
o back read to take the wicket keeper position back, he is a great keeper, if he can just touch up is batting then he will be better than jones, he is a very talented lad, and i am convinced that yes indeed he is improving each year.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
aussie said:
those are options but knowing duncan fletcher he would rather have one keeper in both forms of the game, which for me should be Jones
why should there be one keeper in both forms? AFAIC you put your best players in each form of the game. and i dont think theres much doubt that read is the best option in ODIs.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
aussie said:
well i cant disagree there mate, what u have written thier is quite true, but has i'm sayin all along he is the better of the three bats and i think he can improve on his batting ability.
not sure about that. i havent seen prior play yet, have you?
theres no way we could say that jones is a better bat than prior if prior has only played against zim in ODis.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
Read started his career very ordinarily. His year-by-year stats would suggest he's gone from strength to strength as far as batting concerned. Mind he started young.
1997-98 (Kenya) 1 0 0
1997-98 (Sri Lanka) 3 3 0 61 24 20.33 0 0 7
1998 (England) 13 22 6 401 76 25.06 0 2 39 3
1998-99 (South Africa) 2 3 1 84 38 42.00 0 0 5
1998-99 (Zimbabwe) 3 5 1 70 47 17.50 0 0 6 1
1999 (England) 19 31 1 653 160 21.76 1 1 59 2
1999-00 (South Africa) 3 2 1 29 15* 29.00 0 0 7
2000 (England) 16 23 3 479 56* 23.95 0 3 40
2000-01 (West Indies) 5 6 1 90 29* 18.00 0 0 12
2001 (England) 16 27 5 666 78 30.27 0 5 43 1
2002 (England) 18 28 5 797 127 34.65 1 4 66 2
2002-03 (Sri Lanka) 3 6 0 153 80 25.50 0 1 5 2
2003 (England) 13 23 3 619 94* 30.95 0 4 32 3
2003-04 (Bangladesh) 2 3 1 76 38* 38.00 0 0 10
2003-04 (Sri Lanka) 4 7 2 52 18* 10.40 0 0 6 2
2003-04 (West Indies) 5 5 0 45 20 9.00 0 0 8 1
2004 (England) 13 18 2 807 130 50.43 2 6 35 3

seems to me like all hes had is one good domestic season.
its not just his performance that makes me believe hes not good enough, its the fact that his footwork is so ordinary that he wont succeed at the test match level. now he may have improved on that this season, but personally i doubt it.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
heres priors stats:
2001 (England) 16 24 2 433 66 19.68 0 1 39 2
2002 (England) 16 27 3 741 102* 30.87 1 5 39 2
2003 (England) 16 24 3 1006 153* 47.90 4 3 28
2003-04 (India) 3 6 1 310 82* 62.00 0 3 4
2004 (England) 18 26 1 1158 201* 46.32 3 6 25 2
2004-05 (Sri Lanka) 2 4 2 220 104 110.00 1 1 10

i dont really think its too hard to see whos been far superior.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
aussie

tooextracool said:
not sure about that. i havent seen prior play yet, have you?
theres no way we could say that jones is a better bat than prior if prior has only played against zim in ODis.
i saw him bat on TV againts zimababwe and during the county season i saw him bat against lanchashire at old trafford when he mad 60 odd, to me jones has the best technique of them all and i have great belief in jones's ability
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
aussie

tooextracool said:
why should there be one keeper in both forms? AFAIC you put your best players in each form of the game. and i dont think theres much doubt that read is the best option in ODIs.
well all the major teams around have one keeper in ODI & Test, but i see where ur goin with read, but jones is a dasher and he is best suited down the order where he has a licence to go crazy in the late overs
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
aussie

Mr Mxyzptlk said:
Well if they're unwilling to let Strauss open and they insist on playing Bell (which they should), let Bell open. Don't bat Bell down the order and let Jones fail in the opener's spot.
eventually, i hope :mellow: , they do let strauss open during the SA series Gower, Botham, Willis and Llyod were all sayin it n listening to their comments i dont see y ducan flecther n the england selectors dont let him open, well bell played cause Freddie was unavaible and that gave the england selectors n cahce to see what he was made of they didn't persist with him he was dropped i think after the 4 ODI.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
tooextracool said:
heres priors stats:
2004 (England) 18 26 1 1158 201* 46.32 3 6 25 2
TBF his FC average last year was rather artificially inflated by has not-out double ton against Loughborough UCCE. No disrespect to them, but he'll probably score harder runs.

In CC matches alone his average was a less impressive 37.

He is a better bat than Read, no doubt. I've seen him keep in a coupla ODs & he looked tidy enough, but I've heard better judges than me question his keeping before now.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
aussie said:
i saw him bat on TV againts zimababwe and during the county season i saw him bat against lanchashire at old trafford when he mad 60 odd, to me jones has the best technique of them all and i have great belief in jones's ability
well for me jones may look flambouyant, but i warned immediately after he scored his 100 against NZ that he looks a touch over flambouyant and it may get him in trouble. and it certainly looks like it has off late. theres no question about his technique, its just that his temperament is not upto the mark, and if hes in the side for his batting, because hes certainly not in it for his keeping, id expect him to perform far more than he is ATM.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
aussie said:
well all the major teams around have one keeper in ODI & Test, but i see where ur goin with read, but jones is a dasher and he is best suited down the order where he has a licence to go crazy in the late overs
im not really sure about that, there are plenty of dashers who bat at the top of the order these days and i really dont think jones can improvise well enough to do something particularly good in the slog overs. there is no doubt in my mind that read is a better batsman and keeper in ODIs.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
BoyBrumby said:
TBF his FC average last year was rather artificially inflated by has not-out double ton against Loughborough UCCE. No disrespect to them, but he'll probably score harder runs.

In CC matches alone his average was a less impressive 37.

He is a better bat than Read, no doubt. I've seen him keep in a coupla ODs & he looked tidy enough, but I've heard better judges than me question his keeping before now.
well hes certainly impressed a lot of people from his performances on the A tour, so we'll see if he can go on with that. right now IMO its read for ODIs and jones for tests,but if jones continues to be miserable i would turn first to prior.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
aussie

tooextracool said:
im not really sure about that, there are plenty of dashers who bat at the top of the order these days and i really dont think jones can improvise well enough to do something particularly good in the slog overs. there is no doubt in my mind that read is a better batsman and keeper in ODIs.
well thats ur view tec, i tend to think otherwise
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
aussie

tooextracool said:
there is no doubt in my mind that read is a better batsman and keeper in ODIs.
u sure about that mate, read never really did anything with the bat it ODI's until that series in west indies last year, maybe its that performance that convinced u tec, but i dunno, Jones on the other hand made 80 in 50 odd deliveries in and ODI againts zimabwe, and at the top of the order he had a lot of starts playing some superd shots in all those innings, i cant see read batting like that, so Jones for me is clearly better suited, but i got to watch Prior :happy:
 

tooextracool

International Coach
aussie said:
u sure about that mate, read never really did anything with the bat it ODI's until that series in west indies last year, maybe its that performance that convinced u tec, but i dunno, Jones on the other hand made 80 in 50 odd deliveries in and ODI againts zimabwe, and at the top of the order he had a lot of starts playing some superd shots in all those innings, i cant see read batting like that, so Jones for me is clearly better suited, but i got to watch Prior :happy:
you obviously missed his match winning partnership with tresco in the natwest ODIs against pakistan in 03, and his 26* against SA in 99/00 when he hammered pollock for a huge six over long on. add that with his match winning performance in the WI, and you have a fairly successful no 7. the fact that you have to use a performance against a schoolboy team like zimbabwe to convince me that jones can bat only makes your claim weaker. if read had the chance to play against that zimbabwe side, he probable would have done the same.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
tooextracool said:
you obviously missed his match winning partnership with tresco in the natwest ODIs against pakistan in 03, and his 26* against SA in 99/00 when he hammered pollock for a huge six over long on. add that with his match winning performance in the WI, and you have a fairly successful no 7. the fact that you have to use a performance against a schoolboy team like zimbabwe to convince me that jones can bat only makes your claim weaker. if read had the chance to play against that zimbabwe side, he probable would have done the same.
i agree, read should be given his place in the ODI team back if jones does not make sufficient improvement, in tests however i think it should be the other way around, but none the less i do not think it would be worthwhile to try and draft prior into the equation as it would not at all be worthwhile imo. although the point of this thread still deludes me, i do not think the case of wicke keeper is a dilemma so to speak.
 

kendall

U19 Vice-Captain
unfortunatly the art of keeping is being lost in the modern game, personaly id like to see read as englands keeper especialy in one dayers. England should stop searching for a Gilchrist and work on what they have which is a very talented keepr
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
kendall said:
unfortunatly the art of keeping is being lost in the modern game, personaly id like to see read as englands keeper especialy in one dayers. England should stop searching for a Gilchrist and work on what they have which is a very talented keepr
i agree, however whilst he should be perservered with batting should improve. but i agree, i am big fan of read and think he should be the first choice as he is the best "keeper" in the land
 

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