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England Wicket-Keeper Dilemma

kendall

U19 Vice-Captain
sledger said:
perhaps not, i would say he is not as good as read, but he is the best "keeper" based on keeping ability alone after read. taibu may be the better batsman though....in fact there isnt much doubting that.
I feel you are underestimating gilchrists keeping ability he is not a batsman who has converted to keeping he has always been one and you only have to look at the way he keeps to warne to see he is a top keeper
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
kendall said:
I feel you are underestimating gilchrists keeping ability he is not a batsman who has converted to keeping he has always been one and you only have to look at the way he keeps to warne to see he is a top keeper[/QUOT

i did not say that gilchrist was a bad keeper, not by any stretch of the imagination, i accept that he is a good keeper, but then i think that read is excellent and hence superior in the keeping aspect of cricket to gilchrist.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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aussie said:
ehhh, what r u getting at mate, ur getting overboard has well i'm a big english fan and i always defend my players but at this stage read is good nothing more, ha ha ha and you have to be joking when u say that Gilchrist is good and read is excellent, i presume u meant it the other way round
No. Gilchrist is a good 'keeper. He's not excellent. Read is far from just good. Open your eyes man.
 

Glenn Stiemens

School Boy/Girl Captain
People seem to be questioning Geraint Jones far too much imho.

As Tuffers and Dominic Cork I think mentioned on Radio 5 live a while back, you've got to look at the hard facts - how many test series have England lost with Jones as keeper? The answer? None.

I can't recall him missing any chances against New Zealand or the West Indies in the summer - and given he has already scored some vital runs for England, and formed a good partnership with Freddy Flintoff it would be rash to drop him at this stage.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Glenn Stiemens said:
People seem to be questioning Geraint Jones far too much imho.

As Tuffers and Dominic Cork I think mentioned on Radio 5 live a while back, you've got to look at the hard facts - how many test series have England lost with Jones as keeper? The answer? None.

I can't recall him missing any chances against New Zealand or the West Indies in the summer - and given he has already scored some vital runs for England, and formed a good partnership with Freddy Flintoff it would be rash to drop him at this stage.
yes where that is very much true i accept that and think that jones should remain keeper until a truly superior replacement can be found. however the matter of facts are that his game contains several faults that could one day cost england dear, but yes at the moment he should be kept that is a definite imo, but all it will take is a few failed innings combined with dropped catches and he will more than likely be dropped, for wo i dont know, but if its anyone other than read then its a joke, i am a geraint jones fan, but he will have to make progress.
 

kendall

U19 Vice-Captain
Glenn Stiemens said:
People seem to be questioning Geraint Jones far too much imho.
I can't recall him missing any chances against New Zealand or the West Indies in the summer - and given he has already scored some vital runs for England, and formed a good partnership with Freddy Flintoff it would be rash to drop him at this stage.
It must be said that some of his mistakes against south africa are cause for concern and i feel read was also harshly dropped
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
kendall said:
It must be said that some of his mistakes against south africa are cause for concern and i feel read was also harshly dropped
indeed his sacking was harsh, but in fairness england have not lost a test since, and jones has indeed played some entertaining and important innings.
 

kendall

U19 Vice-Captain
This deate will always come back too whether keeping or batting skills are more important. At the moment it seems to be on the side of batting and this is a shame for people like read
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Glenn Stiemens said:
As Tuffers and Dominic Cork I think mentioned on Radio 5 live a while back, you've got to look at the hard facts - how many test series have England lost with Jones as keeper? The answer? None.
And how much of that is because of his brilliance?

Not a lot.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
kendall said:
This deate will always come back too whether keeping or batting skills are more important. At the moment it seems to be on the side of batting and this is a shame for people like read
very true, but it was read who was dropped for the opposite of this when all the focus was on reads batting, there was never any debate about the quality of his keeping. i dont think anyone would be complaining about jones keeping anywhere near as much if he had not replaced a keeper with the keeping ability of read
 

social

Hall of Fame Member
How many of you guys actually saw Taylor, Knott, or Marsh keep (let alone some of the earlier players)?

If any of you had, you'd realise that:

a. Marsh was literally terrible for the first 18 months of his career (hence the nick-name "Iron-Gloves") and never any better than average against spinners; and

b. Taylor was supposedly picked after his peak (due to the longevity of Knott's career) and not nearly as good as some on here would like to portray.

Dont believe the hype about players of yester-year. Get some videos of their performances rather than making ignorant, popularist statements.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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The mistakes made by Jones may not be costly against lesser sides, but to beat Australia, you need to be near perfect. Australia WILL maximize upon those mistakes.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
The mistakes made by Jones may not be costly against lesser sides, but to beat Australia, you need to be near perfect. Australia WILL maximize upon those mistakes.
yes but it will be no use if england have a keeper who cannot bat in the first place.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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sledger said:
yes but it will be no use if england have a keeper who cannot bat in the first place.
I honestly think with a lineup including Strauss, Vaughan, Thorpe, Flintoff and possibly Pietersen, the mistakes in the field could prove more costly than you're number 7 not being able to contribute more than 20 or so per innings.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
I honestly think with a lineup including Strauss, Vaughan, Thorpe, Flintoff and possibly Pietersen, the mistakes in the field could prove more costly than you're number 7 not being able to contribute more than 20 or so per innings.
very valid point which i agree with, but playing devils advocate you would say that if the top order collapsed you have to have a wicket keeper you can fall back on who is capable of making a big score e.g. like the 100 jones put on against new zealand last year.
 

kendall

U19 Vice-Captain
sledger said:
very valid point which i agree with, but playing devils advocate you would say that if the top order collapsed you have to have a wicket keeper you can fall back on who is capable of making a big score e.g. like the 100 jones put on against new zealand last year.
But what if a catch comes along when ponting is on 0 and jones misses it and he goes on too make 200
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
kendall said:
But what if a catch comes along when ponting is on 0 and jones misses it and he goes on too make 200
what happens if read made the same error and then went for a duck when he came to bat ? where jones could have potentially made a high score ?
 

Neil Pickup

Cricket Web Moderator
sledger said:
what happens if read made the same error and then went for a duck when he came to bat ? where jones could have potentially made a high score ?
The point is that there's far, far less chance of Read dropping anything.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Neil Pickup said:
The point is that there's far, far less chance of Read dropping anything.
thats very very true, but nobody is perfect, read will drop one at least once more in his career, law of averages says it will happen, law of averages also says if he did it could be a crucial drop.
 

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