CW All Time XI Fast Bowlers

[smash84]

spinners should be in if there is a spinning track or the roads of Pakistan where Lillee might be expected to average 101

 

[silentstriker]

Spinners don't generally have as stellar a record as fast bowlers because they work on a different MO. It's more cat and mouse, set up and foreplay than pace bowling. Not to say quick bowling can't be cerebral, but spinners lack the physical intimidatory factor that pace has. (I assume you're talking in terms of strike rate?)

All of that is irrelevant. I care about effectiveness.

 

[kyear2]

On a long day on any track a spin bowler can hold down an end all day and let the fast men rotate. No fast bowler can bowl all day and what can be more terrifying than an attack with Marshall from one end and Warne from the other.

 

[smash84]

On a long day on any track a spin bowler can hold down an end all day and let the fast men rotate. No fast bowler can bowl all day and what can be more terrifying than an attack with Marshall from one end and Warne from the other.

An attack of Barnes at one end and Murali at the other

 

[kingkallis]

'Feiry' Fred Trueman and Joel 'Big Bird' Garner. Fred because he has the best bowling action I've seen and could tear through teams on his day, for example his spells of 5/0 and 6/4. Couple that with his persona and you can hardly go wrong. Garner because he's equal to Ambrose but a little bit taller, therefore cooler. He will be the perfect partner to Trueman.

Fred Trueman - Englands greatest ever fast bowler - YouTube

 

[kyear2]

Think I can call this one now as well. Malcolm Marshall and Glenn Mcgrath. Thanks again guys for voting.

 

[watson]

I think Ian Chappell's assessment is a valid one: Why pick McGrath over Lillee when Lillee was just as accurate but 15 kms faster?

 

[watson]

I think that John Snow should have been included in the list as he was arguably the best fast bowler in the world during the late 60s early 70s.

Here is some footage of Snow getting both the Chappell brothers out (Lords 1975), Ian with the perfect leg cutter.

Eng vs Aus, 2nd Test, Lord's 1975 - Aus 1st innings - YouTube

The only reason that Snow isn't a first pick ATG is that the English selectors generally prefer arse lickers rather than individualists with attitude. If Snow was an Australian he wouldn't have missed a match for a decade. I think that history shows that the English establishment hindered both Trueman and Snow's career by their prissy myopia.

 

[silentstriker]

I think Ian Chappell's assessment is a valid one: Why pick McGrath over Lillee when Lillee was just as accurate but 15 kms faster?

First...15 kms? Nah. And secondly, it's hard to be 'just as accurate' as McGrath. In fact, I'm going to call BS on that.

 

[G.I.Joe]

If Lillee was just as accurate, only 15 kms faster, why doesn't he have a better record than McGrath? It's what they did, not how they did it that's important.

 

[watson]

If Lillee was just as accurate, only 15 kms faster, why doesn't he have a better record than McGrath? It's what they did, not how they did it that's important.

You'll have to ask Ian Chappell that question.

Here is a video of Lillee and other contemporary greats being clocked in the 1970's. The times might seem slow, but that's because the speed of the ball was measured at the point it reached the wicket. These days the speed is recorded as it leaves the bowlers hand. It has been estimated that the ball loses at least 10 kms/hr at it travels the full length of the pitch.

Lillee & Thomson bowling speeds - YouTube

I think that we safely say that a younger Lillee in the early 70s would bowl consistantly at around 150 kms/hr while an older lillee in the late 70s would bowl consistantly at around 140 kms/hr.

As I recall, Glen McGrath's stock delivery was around 130-135 kms/hr for most of his career. But I'm happy to be wrong in the matter.

Lastly, there are any number of photos and videos of Lillee bowling to 4 slips and a gully. There is one famous photo of him bowling to 9 slips. Only a bowler of high accuracy can employ such slip cordons. If Glen McGarth was more accurate then it would be by a small margin. Hardly enough to make a difference in the greater scheme of things.

 

[Prince EWS]

Hardly enough to make a difference in the greater scheme of things.

And yet...

 

[G.I.Joe]

You'll have to ask Ian Chappell that question.

Here is a video of Lillee and other contemporary greats being clocked in the 1970's. The times might seem slow, but that's because the speed of the ball was measured at the point it reached the wicket. These days the speed is recorded as it leaves the bowlers hand. It has been estimated that the ball loses at least 10 kms/hr at it travels the full length of the pitch.

Lillee & Thomson bowling speeds - YouTube

I think that we safely say that a younger Lillee in the early 70s would bowl consistantly at around 150 kms/hr while an older lillee in the late 70s would bowl consistantly at around 140 kms/hr.

As I recall, Glen McGrath's stock delivery was around 130-135 kms/hr for most of his career. But I'm happy to be wrong in the matter.

Lastly, there are any number of photos and videos of Lillee bowling to 4 slips and a gully. There is one famous photo of him bowling to 9 slips. Only a bowler of high accuracy can employ such slip cordons. If Glen McGarth was more accurate then it would be by a small margin. Hardly enough to make a difference in the greater scheme of things.

Lillee could have bowled at 180 kmph with 10 slips, but if he's still picking wickets at a comparable rate and cost to McGrath, it makes the mode of operation irrelevant except as a spectacle.

 

[watson]

Lillee could have bowled at 180 kmph with 10 slips, but if he's still picking wickets at a comparable rate and cost to McGrath, it makes the mode of operation irrelevant except as a spectacle.

Perhaps the spectacle is everything. I've watched Glen McGrath up close at North Sydney Oval in his prime, and at the SCG. I've also watched Lillee in action against England and the West Indies. Glen McGrath was boredom personified and made everything look like drudgery. Lillee was pure showmanship. Even Warne paled in comparison.

Lillee over McGrath for me every time. I want to be entertained and to feel inspired.

 

[silentstriker]

You'll have to ask Ian Chappell that question.

Here is a video of Lillee and other contemporary greats being clocked in the 1970's. The times might seem slow, but that's because the speed of the ball was measured at the point it reached the wicket. These days the speed is recorded as it leaves the bowlers hand. It has been estimated that the ball loses at least 10 kms/hr at it travels the full length of the pitch.

Lillee & Thomson bowling speeds - YouTube

No, it wasn't. It was measured out of the hand, the same way it is now.

 

[silentstriker]

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/1884736-post52.html

It was a nice little theory that we debunked.

 

[Jager]

No, it wasn't. It was measured out of the hand, the same way it is now.

Lillee was recorded at 154.8km/h in 1976. Here's a really good reference for older bowling speeds.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283875.html

 

[silentstriker]

Lillee was recorded at 154.8km/h in 1976. Here's a really good reference for older bowling speeds.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283875.html

I can't speak to 1976 because I have no idea about how those speeds were recorded, or how accurate they were. I tried to find out but no information is available - if you know something, I'd definitely be willing to followup on it.

I did speak to Dr. Pyke about 1979 (the person who ran the tests), so I do know that the 1979 competition was measuring speeds out of the hand. So until I get some accurate information about 1976, I'm going to go by 1979 competition results.

 

[Jacknife]

No, it wasn't. It was measured out of the hand, the same way it is now.

Yes it's a line that Tommo comes out with, even heard him say it fairly recently.

 

[Jager]

I can't speak to 1976 because I have no idea about how those speeds were recorded, or how accurate they were. I tried to find out but no information is available - if you know something, I'd definitely be willing to followup on it.

I did speak to Dr. Pyke about 1979 (the person who ran the tests), so I do know that the 1979 competition was measuring speeds out of the hand. So until I get some accurate information about 1976, I'm going to go by 1979 competition results.

We need to keep in mind that the 1979 competition was performed in stifling heat (around 40 degrees celsius, I believe), but of course you are more 'in the know' than I am on this topic. This is what I know of the 1976 tests... Lillee & Thomson bowling speeds - YouTube
Not much, but it seems like they used high speed cameras once more (judging by the long range side on footage).