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Can any one tell me what the hell Ponting is talking about ?

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
They did in Sri Lanka and that really shook them up, the whole lot including our super duper stars.
SL has always done extremely well at home. Secondly, most of it was being Mendised, and a novelty factor more than anything. Murali has played on spinning tracks in India, and has been average at best. As has Warne. Both have been outdone by quite mediocre Indian spinners.

Frankly, I really am straining to think of the last time India lost at home on a spinning wicket.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
The other thing is, a number of the overseas batsmen have started "surviving" better on our slow and low tracks.. They have worked out a technique by which they can stay there, rotate ones and twos and generally spend time without looking like getting out every other ball...
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I already mentioned that this is a legitimate point. Still, bowlers were better in the 90s, pitches were even less flat, and I think this decade actually has less draws. I think that has to do with the approach of modern batsmen as well as the attacking nature of the game as a whole. But with all this, the subcontinent still has a very high draw rate. So I think the bowler's winning matches argument is offset quite a bit, and that the flat-pitch argument is still quite strong.



TBH, that's only because of Sri Lanka. Both Pakistan - whatever little they've played at home - and India have far too many draws IMO.
See.. when you talk of attacking batsmen, you would do well to chk the RPO outside the subcontinent and over here...
 

pasag

RTDAS
Most of the pitches over here produce results, it's the weather that puts a stop to this. I can't remember too many Tests in England where games have ground to a draw without the rain's help. Saffa at Lord's last year perhaps.

Don't group us in with all of your shambolic pitches :ph34r:
Has more to do with England's batting lineup than anything :p
 
Ponting makes sense to me but then again I'm not looking for excuses to abuse him.

Read what he has actually said and not what the writer has made up, ask yourself why only 7% of Indians regard test matches as the best form of cricket.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
SL has always done extremely well at home. Secondly, most of it was being Mendised, and a novelty factor more than anything. Murali has played on spinning tracks in India, and has been average at best. As has Warne. Both have been outdone by quite mediocre Indian spinners.

Frankly, I really am straining to think of the last time India lost at home on a spinning wicket.
Well they haven't lost a single series of the last nine spread over six years. During this time they have lost only three matches out of 26 so it wont be easy. :)

The last two of those three losses were due to pace-men from South Africa in August 2008 and from England in March 2006. The last time spinners plotted India's defeat was when Pakistan's Kaneria, Afridi and Arshad Khan took seven wickets in the second innings (after Kaneria and Afridi had taken seven in the first too) to beat India in March 2005.

By the way, it was not only Mendis (26 wickets at 28.4) but also Murali (21 at 22.2) who caused India strife. Harbhajan's 16, on the other hand cost 28.1 and Kumble's 8 came at 50.0.

The other time India went to Sri Lanka before this, Murali took 23 wickets at 19.3 while Harbhajan's 4 came at 73.0!
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
By the way, it was not only Mendis (26 wickets at 28.4) but also Murali (21 at 22.2) who caused India strife. Harbhajan's 16, on the other hand cost 28.1 and Kumble's 8 came at 50.0.

The other time India went to Sri Lanka before this, Murali took 23 wickets at 19.3 while Harbhajan's 4 came at 73.0!
Exactly, that's what I was saying - SL have always done well at home - against everyone. It's got nothing to do with spinning wickets in India and how well India do on them.

Frankly, if ten Test matches were played on wickets that offered a lot of spin from day 1 or 2, I would back India to win at least 8 of them. You can't ask for better odds than that.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Exactly, that's what I was saying - SL have always done well at home - against everyone. It's got nothing to do with spinning wickets in India and how well India do on them.

Frankly, if ten Test matches were played on wickets that offered a lot of spin from day 1 or 2, I would back India to win at least 8 of them. You can't ask for better odds than that.
I think we have started going round and round so its time for me to say, I rest my case :)
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Exactly, that's what I was saying - SL have always done well at home - against everyone. It's got nothing to do with spinning wickets in India and how well India do on them.

Frankly, if ten Test matches were played on wickets that offered a lot of spin from day 1 or 2, I would back India to win at least 8 of them. You can't ask for better odds than that.
But Sri Lanka's pitches are receptive to spin and yet the Indian bowlers do pretty badly there.
 

NasserFan207

International Vice-Captain
The fact that India has a weaker bowling attack than Australia or South Africa is BECAUSE of their pitches. Kids growing up on batting friendly wickets are more likely to concentrate on that aspect of the game.

Its very simple.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
But Sri Lanka's pitches are receptive to spin and yet the Indian bowlers do pretty badly there.
Yup. But the same bowlers do really well against SL in India. SL have never won a Test in India.

Hence I said you can't compare the two countries. SL have always been exceptionally strong in SL, as have India in India. India win on spinning pitches against SL at home, as do SL against India at their home. Another example: teams like Australia and guys like Warne do well in SL (exceptionally so), but not so well in India. There are consistant and important differences in the two countries even if, at a superficial level, they both 'aid spin'.

And hence I said if India prepared proper Indian spinning tracks at home, they'd win 8/10 times.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
The fact that India has a weaker bowling attack than Australia or South Africa is BECAUSE of their pitches. Kids growing up on batting friendly wickets are more likely to concentrate on that aspect of the game.

Its very simple.
Maybe - doesn't explain Pakistan.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
A) Plenty of meat eaters in India, especially among the extremely large muslim population.
B) Maybe, even if the percentage of 'better' genetics is lower, the sheer population size would ensure at least a few with the 'right stuff'.
C) Enough cooler climate in the north, doesn't explain Australia or South Africa.
D) Yes, I think that's a component.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
The fact that India has a weaker bowling attack than Australia or South Africa is BECAUSE of their pitches. Kids growing up on batting friendly wickets are more likely to concentrate on that aspect of the game.

Its very simple.
I don't agree, because "batting friendly" is a completely relative concept. If all they play on is wickets you'd consider to be batting friendly, I highly doubt they'd actually consider them all batting friendly themselves - they'd consider the least batting friendly of the wickets they encountered to be bowling friendly, even though you wouldn't. By 1850s standards, every serious pitch in the world at the moment is a batsman's paradise to an absolutely ridiculous extent, so your logic would mean there'd be no decent bowlers at all, anywhere. Relativity of non-absolute concepts is something people really struggle with on this forum for some reason.

I think it's far more likely to be a cultural prestige thing with batsmen getting inherently more recognition and idolisation.
 
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honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
In what sense? What is the relevance?
In the sense that batsmen don't and generally can't play in the same aggressive vein here as they can outside... That is why more of them try to be content with being able to defend in these conditions than anything else...
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
A) Plenty of meat eaters in India, especially among the extremely large muslim population.
B) Maybe, even if the percentage of 'better' genetics is lower, the sheer population size would ensure at least a few with the 'right stuff'.
C) Enough cooler climate in the north, doesn't explain Australia or South Africa.
D) Yes, I think that's a component.
The muslim population in India tends to be of a lower socio economic group than in Pakistan tbh. Logical, considering Pakistan ended up with the feudal landlord population among the muslims of the subcontinent. Per capita meat consumption in Pakistan is more that twice that of India. Climate is definitely an issue imo. 'Winters' in the south are a misnomer, and while the north does have cooler winters that are comparable to Pakistan, there are other factors at play. I might be wrong, but the area seems to tend towards hockey and wrestling. Australia and SA are definitely cooler, plenty of Indian players put on their jumpers when playing in the Australian summer down under.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
In the sense that batsmen don't and generally can't play in the same aggressive vein here as they can outside... That is why more of them try to be content with being able to defend in these conditions than anything else...
The differences are too small for that to be such a great factor IMO. Also, it flies in the face of batting in West Indies being difficult, in the sense that aggressive batting is harder. As they Sri Lanka and India have the lowest ER rates in the world. Through this decade they've not only had flat tracks but pretty underwhelming bowlers too; so that asserts something different. I don't think the ER rates play a significant factor in the draws as Sri Lanka, where pitches are more conducive to results, has the lowest ERs in the world. The difference between the lowest and highest ERs is ~0.3 runs and even smaller in the middling ones; whereas the difference in the proportion of draws is very large.
 
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