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Can any one tell me what the hell Ponting is talking about ?

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Edited to seperate NZ and Australia

2000s
Asia: 80 results - 38 draws - 32% end in draws
Australia: 43 results - 9 draws - 17%
New Zealand 25 results - 12 draws 32%
Americas 26 results - 19 draws - 42%
Europe 48 results - 16 draws - 25%
Africa 39 results - 7 draws - 15%

Since 2005

Asia: 33 results - 21 draws - 39%
Europe: 22 results - 11 draws- 33%
Americas: 10 results - 10 draws - 50%
Australia: 22 results - 3 draws - 12%
New Zealand 13 results - 8 draws- 38%
Africa: 21 results - 2 draws - 9%

Since 2008

Asia: 14 results 8 draws - 36%
Australia: 8 results 2 draws - 20%
New Zealand: 8 results 5 draws - 38%
Americas: 5 results 5 draws - 50%
Europe: 10 results 4 draws - 29%
Africa: 5 results 0 draws - 0%

If anyone thought that would give Australia more draws than India they were sorely mistaken. NZ seems to have a fair few draws possibly due to a mixture of the roads of Napier and Auckland and the weather factor.
We are not talking about draws per se here.... Draws can also indicate a team's batting being much much stronger than its bowlng and why is that so bad for test cricket again? There have always been times when teams have had stronger batting than stronger bowling.. And I would take 2-0 wins in 4 match series with a couple of high scoring draws any day of the week from my team...
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Yet Kumble does massively better in the 00s away than he did in the 90s. Suggests that foreign soil aided him more whereas his own became less lethal.
Or to put in another way, he turned his bowling such that he would be more effective away but taking away quite a bit of his effectivveness at home.. He himself has mentioned it in interviews...
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I agree with two things one that cricket is not interesting because it isn't even a contest any more and two that his comments have absolutely nothing to do with how he fares/fared as a batsman in the sub-continent or anywhere else.

I too find it impossible to sit through most cricket matches (all cricket matches not just Tests) today and that, my wife will tell you, is something earth shattering. The reason is the same - batsmen are having it too easy and I was moved enough to do this feature on the subject.

My point is why does Ponting single out the sub-continent. I suspect the timing of his statement gives him away. He is upset by India's moving to number one spot in the rankings and he feels this is achieved not through beating the best but by drawing and winning enough games to edge out Australia (and South Africa).

He isn't completely unjustified in thinking that is so but he needs to say exactly that. Criticise the ranking systems which equate two draws to a win and no negative points for a loss. The batting wickets and how the rankings are calculated are unrelated issues even if bothe are valid. That is why his criticism of the sub-continent for draws is strange.
I don't think Ponting wants points taken away for losses.. His team will end up even worse, I think.. :p
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
We are not talking about draws per se here.... Draws can also indicate a team's batting being much much stronger than its bowlng and why is that so bad for test cricket again? There have always been times when teams have had stronger batting than stronger bowling.. And I would take 2-0 wins in 4 match series with a couple of high scoring draws any day of the week from my team...
Because the aim should be to get results. If you have a very strong batting attack then conditions that are easier for the bowlers should benefit your team than a team with an inferior batting card.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Because the aim should be to get results. If you have a very strong batting attack then conditions that are easier for the bowlers should benefit your team than a team with an inferior batting card.
But you can't do that all the time.. The difference between a slow and low track and a sharp raging turner is usually one more day of preparation.. That is all there is... It is very very easy to get it wrong and then get castigated by the same people who are jumping up and down about the draws here...
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
But you can't do that all the time.. The difference between a slow and low track and a sharp raging turner is usually one more day of preparation.. That is all there is... It is very very easy to get it wrong and then get castigated by the same people who are jumping up and down about the draws here...
1 in 4 tracks drawing would make it fine IMO.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Juz because it seams and bounces more over in RSA, doesn't mean it is the toughest for Aussies. The toughest for Aussies for years has been India...
Again, you're missing the point. This argument is not limited to Australia and India.

The least flat tracks in the world have been in S.Africa and the small number of draws there exemplifies this greatly.

Look in yer own backyard Punter. Aside from the odd exception pitches in Aus, India, WI and Engand are all equally piss poor.
Australian pitches are more than fine, comparatively. England are in the middle. WI and India have just far too many draws.

no, include BD in the stats for subcontinent.. then we will talk.. :p
Why? Are Bangladesh ever going to force a draw? Even on the flattest pitches? Not likely.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Again, you're missing the point. This argument is not limited to Australia and India.

The least flat tracks in the world have been in S.Africa and the small number of draws there exemplifies this greatly.



Australian pitches are more than fine, comparatively. England are in the middle. WI and India have just far too many draws.



Why? Are Bangladesh ever going to force a draw? Even on the flattest pitches? Not likely.
The same reason why we include when teams take on far weaker teams in their home and show off the records...
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
The same reason why we include when teams take on far weaker teams in their home and show off the records...
Like which teams? The weakest teams by far, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, have been left out. I don't understand your gripe.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Like which teams? The weakest teams by far, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, have been left out. I don't understand your gripe.
I am merely telling when a certain team has a better bowling attack and is facing an inferior batting line up, there is always possibility of results even on the flattest of decks...
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
I was glib earlier, but yes, I do think there are too many draws in India.

However, if ICC is going to punish BCCI for preparing spinning tracks, then I can see why many tracks continue to be flat.
 

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
What is actually wrong with Ponting having an opinion and voicing it? I don't see why not. He's always been critical of flat pitches, and a staunch defender of test cricket. And I'm sure I've heard him criticise flat pitches outside the sub-continent too. It's just crazy to suggest he's saying it because India just got to no.1. I'm sure he'd say that Australia don't deserve to be there right now.

Edit: I do think he makes the mistake of thinking of 'India' when he thinks of 'sub-continent' though. There have been 47% draws in India in the last three years as opposed to 29% overall. Whereas if you include Sri Lanka and Pakistan it's only 39% draws, which is a lot closer.
 
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SJS

Hall of Fame Member
I was glib earlier, but yes, I do think there are too many draws in India.

However, if ICC is going to punish BCCI for preparing spinning tracks, then I can see why many tracks continue to be flat.
Yes there are and it is unfortunate. There would have been more if the overall standards around the world had not fallen giving India some wins inspite of not so great an attack.

The reasons are two or three. The wickets are flat, India has a formidable batting line up so they do not lose many and they have an ordinary attack so they don't win many even if they score a lot of runs. Earlier India would prepare spinning tacks and often manage to bowl teams out. Now they have discovered that the spinners they have now are no better than those in many other countries and a spinning track isn't such a great idea any more. So they prefer the batting tracks and with their heavy batting hope the visitors will falter just once and that might be enough.

The difference for matches in Australia is that Australia have had a far better attack so inspite of batting tracks, they still have been winning more games with their good batting PLUS their bowling.

Its not a very good situation really. Wickets are getting better and bowling stocks are fast depleting. That's why it was such a pleasant surprise to see the Pakistani attack. Unfortunately, the Pakistani's, like the Indians, do not have the guts to prepare the tracks that will suit their excellent attack.

Its a tragedy that the young fast/fast medium bowlers that seemed to be suddenly emerging from India are not that hot any more. One had hoped that with Ishant, Shreesanth and a still potent Zaheer, India might be tempted to make a few sporting tracks. Unfortunately these bowlers have slid back and Zaheer is clearly close to the end of his career.
 
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Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
I am merely telling when a certain team has a better bowling attack and is facing an inferior batting line up, there is always possibility of results even on the flattest of decks...
I already mentioned that this is a legitimate point. Still, bowlers were better in the 90s, pitches were even less flat, and I think this decade actually has less draws. I think that has to do with the approach of modern batsmen as well as the attacking nature of the game as a whole. But with all this, the subcontinent still has a very high draw rate. So I think the bowler's winning matches argument is offset quite a bit, and that the flat-pitch argument is still quite strong.

What is actually wrong with Ponting having an opinion and voicing it? I don't see why not. He's always been critical of flat pitches, and a staunch defender of test cricket. And I'm sure I've heard him criticise flat pitches outside the sub-continent too. It's just crazy to suggest he's saying it because India just got to no.1. I'm sure he'd say that Australia don't deserve to be there right now.

Edit: I do think he makes the mistake of thinking of 'India' when he thinks of 'sub-continent' though. There have been 47% draws in India in the last three years as opposed to 29% overall. Whereas if you include Sri Lanka and Pakistan it's only 39% draws, which is a lot closer.
TBH, that's only because of Sri Lanka. Both Pakistan - whatever little they've played at home - and India have far too many draws IMO.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Earlier India would prepare spinning tacks and often manage to bowl teams out. Now they have discovered that the spinners they have now are no better than those in many other countries and a spinning track isn't such a great idea any more.
It isn't? When is the last time India lost on a spinning track in India? The real reason is much more simple: Indian TV deals are based on a number of days, so they need matches to last the distance or the groundsman gets in trouble.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Look in yer own backyard Punter. Aside from the odd exception pitches in Aus, India, WI and Engand are all equally piss poor.
Most of the pitches over here produce results, it's the weather that puts a stop to this. I can't remember too many Tests in England where games have ground to a draw without the rain's help. Saffa at Lord's last year perhaps.

Don't group us in with all of your shambolic pitches :ph34r:
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
It isn't? When is the last time India lost on a spinning track in India? The real reason is much more simple: Indian TV deals are based on a number of days, so they need matches to last the distance or the groundsman gets in trouble.
They did in Sri Lanka and that really shook them up, the whole lot including our super duper stars.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Most of the pitches over here produce results, it's the weather that puts a stop to this. I can't remember too many Tests in England where games have ground to a draw without the rain's help. Saffa at Lord's last year perhaps.

Don't group us in with all of your shambolic pitches :ph34r:

Good point.
 

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