viriya
International Captain
tfw SL is not even remembered...
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best team in world cricket right now
- Thread starter Shady Slim
- Start date
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
^^^ Well summed up. What's important to me when talking about the 'now' is whether that includes the core group of players currently player. In the last 6 years, England produced two of the greatest away victories by any team - winning in Australia 2010 (funny how we forget that after the 0-5 drubbing) and winning in India 2012. But the core group of players that contributed to that namely Strauss, Trott, KP, Bell, Swann, Panesar, Tremlett, Bresnan are gone. So those wins will have less relevance when talking about the 'now'.
Pakistan have been untested anywhere else other than England in recent past but the core group of players - YK, Misbah, Shafiq, Azhar, Hafeez and to an extent Rahat remain the same. The bowling attack has changed drastically but I think it's fair to include the 2011 New Zealand series win and the 0-3 drubbing in South Africa 2012-13 because the team wasn't that different. Now yes the batsmen, mainly Shafiq and Azhar are better players than they were, but that's the test for them now..to demonstrate that.
This is also the reason why I rate South Africa..because their core group of players from the 2012-2014 highs remains the same. The sides that won in Australia, England, drew in India and UAE, won in Sri Lanka and New Zealand is not that different - Amla, AB, Steyn, Morkel, Philander, Faf. Yes they did lose two major stalwarts in Kallis and Smith and that obviously coincided with their 2015 decline but I can see this side picking themselves up. I feel that the problems with South Africa are less to do with cricket, and more to do with off field factors and if these players can put that behind them, and good cricketers have shown the ability to do that, they can become a top side again. Stephen Cook provides solidity at the top, Bavuma and De Kock are solid additions. Rabada and Steyn is a bowling attack as good as as any on paper.
I know bringing South Africa into the equation only complicates the scenario, but also makes it more fun
Pakistan have been untested anywhere else other than England in recent past but the core group of players - YK, Misbah, Shafiq, Azhar, Hafeez and to an extent Rahat remain the same. The bowling attack has changed drastically but I think it's fair to include the 2011 New Zealand series win and the 0-3 drubbing in South Africa 2012-13 because the team wasn't that different. Now yes the batsmen, mainly Shafiq and Azhar are better players than they were, but that's the test for them now..to demonstrate that.
This is also the reason why I rate South Africa..because their core group of players from the 2012-2014 highs remains the same. The sides that won in Australia, England, drew in India and UAE, won in Sri Lanka and New Zealand is not that different - Amla, AB, Steyn, Morkel, Philander, Faf. Yes they did lose two major stalwarts in Kallis and Smith and that obviously coincided with their 2015 decline but I can see this side picking themselves up. I feel that the problems with South Africa are less to do with cricket, and more to do with off field factors and if these players can put that behind them, and good cricketers have shown the ability to do that, they can become a top side again. Stephen Cook provides solidity at the top, Bavuma and De Kock are solid additions. Rabada and Steyn is a bowling attack as good as as any on paper.
I know bringing South Africa into the equation only complicates the scenario, but also makes it more fun
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Yeah, a side that is about to go 9-0 in Asia and hasn't won in England since 2001 (I mean even Sri Lanka and India have won series there in that time and those teams suck in England) and loses at home to South Africa really belongs in tier 1. Of course when you put an asterisk on all your losses, then your result start looking good.
I think a team is missing here.. Someone with better results away than any of those mentioned. Just a thought.
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
The Australian cricket fan circle on Cricket Chat will easily put PakPassion to shame.
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
Give it a few weeks. Let South Africa win against New Zealand and they will be part of the conversations again.
But then again..people will say 'minnow bashers at home'
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
I don't think that is fair to some of the better posters there. Blokes like TC are champs as far as CW posting is concerned.
OverratedSanity
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Honestly, you constantly complaining about some of the Australian posters has stunk up this place just as much as they have. Just give it bit of a rest please, and post normally which you clearly can do.
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
OS if you think my posts have sunk up this place, feel free to ignore them.
smash84
The Tiger King
haha, that is harsh. I mean we have the likes of T_C, Prince of England Wales and Scotland (ironically), and Vic_Orthodox from Australia on here who are some of the top posters going around
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
And that post wasn't directed at them. Everyone here knows who it was directed at yet pretends otherwise.
Daemon
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I said they get destroyed everywhere else that counts. How is that putting an asterisk?
I'm not putting NZ or SA tier one because SA need a fit Steyn and Philander which we have not seen yet, and NZ needs Soult to get their **** together. Like I said, it's not all about past series performances, this is about the now.
StephenZA
Hall of Fame Member
To be fair our problem is not the bowling... having Steyn back can just paper over other cracks. But we still had Rabada, Abbott and Morkel which was not bad when we were losing.... the problem was the batting, which is still an uncertainty. But if Cook continues to perform and we can sort the middle order out, we will get back quickly.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Duminy's alarming decline is the cause for all of RSA's batting woes AFAIC...
morgieb
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Assessing it from a results point of view and what I think each side can do:
Australia (along with India) is the hardest team to beat at home IMO, and indisputibly the best side in the Southern Hemisphere. In Asia however we've been awful, and we haven't won an away Ashes since 2001. As for their overall ability, our bowling is pretty damn strong at full fitness, but our batting has been exposed dramatically away from home. I think Shady Slim summed it up best when he say we're the best side in the world when given an inch, but when not we struggle (well using his analogy anyway).
England have risen in the last 12 months, having beaten South Africa away from home and didn't disgrace themselves in the UAE. Their home results also remain solid. Away from home I feel like they have the most going for them with South Africa declining, but they're not as dominant as Australia, India or Pakistan at home, and their side has a number of below-average Test cricketers (which is covered by the amount of players who have pretensions of being all-rounders, admittedly).
India are very tough to beat at home, and their away performances haven't been completely awful in recent times either - only in England were they disgraced and they still won a Test there. So they have a pretty good case at #1 That said, I think their balance will give them some issues against the stronger sides and I also question Kohli's approach somewhat.
Pakistan haven't played a lot away from the UAE recently, but you have to be optimistic about their chances given they just drew with England. And their UAE performances have been great. Add that there's few discernable weaknesses besides their opening pair (which may be getting close to being fixed), and you have a strong side, one good enough to be #1.
As for the others:
South Africa were first this time last year, but you have to wonder whether they're still that good after being embarrassed by India and losing to England at home. Their batting looks worrying sans Kallis and Smith, and their bowling looks weaker without Steyn. While him coming back will help, it's not a young side and you have to wonder whether political factors will hurt them long-term.
New Zealand looked good about 18 months ago, but since the England series I think they've gone backwards. They were beaten pretty badly by Australia and didn't completely dominate against Sri Lanka. Had some good performances in Asia (drawing with Pakistan and Sri Lanka), but I'm somewhat skeptical they'll win there now. Maybe they'll improve if/when Southee and Boult get back to their best, but will they?
Sri Lanka are still a pretty decent at home, but away from home they'll struggle against any of the Top 6. I think they'll fall to West Indies level when Herath retires, although if this series tells us anything he's still got some fight left.
West Indies and Bangladesh are just ****. Maybe the Banglas will improve at home with a proper chance though, it's been a while since they played Test cricket. Zimbabwe probably don't deserve Test status.
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So if I had to pick a #1, would go with Pakistan for now, with South Africa as the elephant in the room for if/when Steyn gets an extended run with a fit body again.
Australia (along with India) is the hardest team to beat at home IMO, and indisputibly the best side in the Southern Hemisphere. In Asia however we've been awful, and we haven't won an away Ashes since 2001. As for their overall ability, our bowling is pretty damn strong at full fitness, but our batting has been exposed dramatically away from home. I think Shady Slim summed it up best when he say we're the best side in the world when given an inch, but when not we struggle (well using his analogy anyway).
England have risen in the last 12 months, having beaten South Africa away from home and didn't disgrace themselves in the UAE. Their home results also remain solid. Away from home I feel like they have the most going for them with South Africa declining, but they're not as dominant as Australia, India or Pakistan at home, and their side has a number of below-average Test cricketers (which is covered by the amount of players who have pretensions of being all-rounders, admittedly).
India are very tough to beat at home, and their away performances haven't been completely awful in recent times either - only in England were they disgraced and they still won a Test there. So they have a pretty good case at #1 That said, I think their balance will give them some issues against the stronger sides and I also question Kohli's approach somewhat.
Pakistan haven't played a lot away from the UAE recently, but you have to be optimistic about their chances given they just drew with England. And their UAE performances have been great. Add that there's few discernable weaknesses besides their opening pair (which may be getting close to being fixed), and you have a strong side, one good enough to be #1.
As for the others:
South Africa were first this time last year, but you have to wonder whether they're still that good after being embarrassed by India and losing to England at home. Their batting looks worrying sans Kallis and Smith, and their bowling looks weaker without Steyn. While him coming back will help, it's not a young side and you have to wonder whether political factors will hurt them long-term.
New Zealand looked good about 18 months ago, but since the England series I think they've gone backwards. They were beaten pretty badly by Australia and didn't completely dominate against Sri Lanka. Had some good performances in Asia (drawing with Pakistan and Sri Lanka), but I'm somewhat skeptical they'll win there now. Maybe they'll improve if/when Southee and Boult get back to their best, but will they?
Sri Lanka are still a pretty decent at home, but away from home they'll struggle against any of the Top 6. I think they'll fall to West Indies level when Herath retires, although if this series tells us anything he's still got some fight left.
West Indies and Bangladesh are just ****. Maybe the Banglas will improve at home with a proper chance though, it's been a while since they played Test cricket. Zimbabwe probably don't deserve Test status.
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So if I had to pick a #1, would go with Pakistan for now, with South Africa as the elephant in the room for if/when Steyn gets an extended run with a fit body again.
morgieb
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Was Duminy ever particularly good at Test cricket though?
No the cause AFAIC is the retirement of Kallis and Smith and them not finding strong replacements for them.
StephenZA
Hall of Fame Member
Duminys decline was not good, but Amla was the real issue.... All-round records . And with the loss of Smith at the top and Kallis, Amla averaging 23 really hammered us. He did not score a single hundred in 2015 but has already scored 2 in 2016, right after giving up captaincy.
Furball
Evil Scotsman
When did Smith and Kallis come out of retirement?
Howe_zat
Audio File
Trying to replace Kallis with Ryan McLaren might have been a bigger issue.