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Baggy Green ball tampering: Bancroft, Smith and the Aussie "Leadership Group"

cnerd123

likes this
A) maybe yellow sandpaper is all the South African stores/hotel had available

B) 'Ignorant oofs' is a fairly accurate way to describe most fast bowlers

C) They probably used the abrasive tape on Davey's fingers to tamper the ball before this test. If it's been going on long enough you can expect the bowlers to just feel the amount of wear and tear on the ball to be normal. The umpires didn't seem to notice anything either
 

Redbacks

International Captain
I think the initial reports were that it was yellow tape used on their bats iirc.

That's a different method to sandpaper in that it implies more pre-meditation to acquire the materials. Not just some dumb Warner idea at a break in play to use some tape around the place.
 

Redbacks

International Captain
Now that the punishments have been made, I hardly expect any players with knowledge to come out and incriminate themselves. It will probably all come out once they retire. It won't lessen the penalties for Smith/Warner so I don't see how they will want to expose others. If someone within the inner sanctum speaks out against their integrity, then I think they would want to clarify the record.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Must admit, now that it's sandpaper, it increases the likelihood that it was going on in earlier Test matches.
Darren Gough makes a good point. How the hell would the bowlers be unaware the ball had been tampered with, even if subtly? It's their tool, they know it intimately, & know exactly how it feels in the hand (No dirty innuendo intended).

Considering that point, it really does make it all the more unbelievable that no one except those 3 knew about it.
This is something that keeps going round and round in my head when I think about this whole fiasco.

If we're to believe the official line of events - that pushed forward by CA, Lehmann, and everyone interviewed - bar Warner, it goes down something like this: Warner, the previous designated 'ball shiner', for whatever reason, decides to hatch a plan with newbie Bancroft to scuff the ball with sandpaper. Smith overhears them talking, but decides he doesn't want to know (based on leaked comments). Warner and Bancroft go ahead with their plan, but are sprung by the cameramen. The clueless Lehmann radios to Handscomb to figure out wtf is going on. Bancroft lies to the umpires, and presumably, Smith too, with the black cloth. Later, when challenged, they may or may not tell Smith it's tape as opposed to sandpaper, which in turn leads him to reveal this at the press conference that the leadership group decided to make sandpaper from tape and dirt and that it was a desperate move that they'll never repeat. Maybe Smith believes this is the best way out, as daft as it is, while Lehmann stays silent. In the wash, it turns out it was a plan hatched by Warner and Bancroft, tacitly approved by Smith, with no knowledge by the other leadership group members nor the coach. Then it turns out to be sandpaper, meaning Smith has either deliberately or inadvertently lied (unless someone has a link to coverage clarifying, it seems like Smith could just have taken Warner and Bancroft at face value about it being tape if he didn't know the ins and outs) about the whole ordeal resulting in his CA ban along with Warner and Bancroft. Lehmann, the clueless coach, tried to get to the bottom of this shocking turn of events during the break and at end of day.

However, there's the Warner line of events, which could be him trying to cover his arse, or the truth in the face of other people trying to cover their arse. Warner, the designated ball shiner, has been wearing hand strapping for yonks, supposedly due to an injury. perhaps some of that brown plaster on his thumb is actually sandpaper painted to look that way, and he uses it to rough the ball up. Everyone may be in on this, from the bowlers to captain to coach. But now the heat is too much and eyes are on him, coupled with the fact they're just not getting that reverse swing. So he has to step the game up, but he can't change his MO of the taped hand, and introduce something else, so he enlists Bancroft and the fluro sandpaper to try and get better results. The leadership group - all of them - discuss the plan and approve it, and it goes ahead. The method they had been using for years wasn't going to win them the series, which is already at a boiling point, so they need to up the game. It all falls apart, but no one wants to be implicated. Perhaps Smith told the truth of who was involved at the conference, i.e. Starc, Lyon etc. but they baulked at the fact they would be dragged through the mud, so denied it as much as possible. Suddenly the only people possibly involved are those obviously involved and who have admitted to it - Warner, Smith and Bancroft. Warner knows it runs deeper, it's been happening longer, and he doesn't want to be the fall guy for a team full of accomplices.

I mean, if you were CA and you had to do damage control and discipline players, you'd go with the former because it means three bodies to bury - the latter is much messier. Personally, the answer probably lies somewhere in between. Maybe Warner's been tampering with the ball this whole time and the bowling unit has just said "whatever it is you're doing, don't tell us and don't get caught, so long as it works" and they've been happy to play along. Maybe Lehmann does know, and has been trying to push the line as much as possible considering it's an open secret that every team has their methods to get reverse swing. Australia seems to have been obsessed ever since '05, in catching up to the rest of the world in getting reverse. It's all messy and muddy and I think if Smith had denied it entirely, it might've just been Warner and Bancroft on the chopping block. The "change in culture" that Lehmann will try and effect may take 6 months before he retires and says "job done - next guys go" in a bid to save face without CA having jettisoned half the setup. Maybe that desire to change is genuine, or maybe it's more BS. The time for that change would've been the Phil Hughes incident, much like it was with NZ. Australia have a thing about winning, and then slaying the people responsible when they don't. So long as they win, the methods must be fine - just don't get caught.
 
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91Jmay

International Coach
I am actually speechless (which is difficult) over the level of absurdity to which this is spiralled. Are there no adults left in international cricket? Desperately need someone to stick their neck out and say, "it was really bad, send them home and then reassess in a few months but it isn't the end of the world".

I'm far more interested in the next Test than all this carry on.

Oh, and Aus to win btw.
 

anil1405

International Captain
I am actually speechless (which is difficult) over the level of absurdity to which this is spiralled. Are there no adults left in international cricket? Desperately need someone to stick their neck out and say, "it was really bad, send them home and then reassess in a few months but it isn't the end of the world".

I'm far more interested in the next Test than all this carry on.

Oh, and Aus to win btw.
With the kind of attention this incident has garnered, sponsors wouldn't be happy with the 'reasses in few months' part.
 

Redbacks

International Captain
The commonwealth bank move quickly to dump smith

Slowly to stop the mafia using their machines to launder money...
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Darren Gough makes a good point. How the hell would the bowlers be unaware the ball had been tampered with, even if subtly? It's their tool, they know it intimately, & know exactly how it feels in the hand (No dirty innuendo intended).

Considering that point, it really does make it all the more unbelievable that no one except those 3 knew about it.
Remember, the umpires looked at the ball and decided it hadn't been altered in any way that would dictate penalties. So no I don't believe Gough is right at all.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Based purely on CA's release, Smith has been penalized a minimum of $5 million in earnings, suspended from playing anything other than grade for 12 months, stripped of the captaincy and sentenced to 100 hours of community service

His "crime": not trying hard enough to stop two fools from carrying out arguably the most stupid scheme in sports history and not telling the whole truth at a presser

FMD, if FAF was Australian, he'd be holed up with Ivan Milat at Goulburn Jail with no chance of parole
 

R!TTER

First Class Debutant
Remember, the umpires looked at the ball and decided it hadn't been altered in any way that would dictate penalties. So no I don't believe Gough is right at all.
Did the umpires take before & after pics to compare the deterioration? If not there's no way they could tell there was some sandpaper scuffing, just because you feel something isn't damaged doesn't mean it isn't.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Did the umpires take before & after pics to compare the deterioration? If not there's no way they could tell there was some sandpaper scuffing, just because you feel something isn't damaged doesn't mean it isn't.
They get the ball at regular intervals (end of every over?) and should be able to tell with nothing more than a cursory glance
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Did the umpires take before & after pics to compare the deterioration? If not there's no way they could tell there was some sandpaper scuffing, just because you feel something isn't damaged doesn't mean it isn't.
Right, but it certainly means there weren't such obvious signs of tampering as to automatically tip the bowlers off. They didn't even change the ball after it was clear they'd tampered with it.
 

anil1405

International Captain
Based purely on CA's release, Smith has been penalized a minimum of $5 million in earnings, suspended from playing anything other than grade for 12 months, stripped of the captaincy and sentenced to 100 hours of community service

His "crime": not trying hard enough to stop two fools from carrying out arguably the most stupid scheme in sports history and not telling the whole truth at a presser

FMD, if FAF was Australian, he'd be holed up with Ivan Milat at Goulburn Jail with no chance of parole
Lying in front of the whole world is a big thing when he had the opportunity to state things as they are. What's the point in saying that they had used a tape (and tried to pick up granules using it) instead of stating that it was sandpaper.
 

R!TTER

First Class Debutant
Right, but it certainly means there weren't such obvious signs of tampering as to automatically tip the bowlers off. They didn't even change the ball after it was clear they'd tampered with it.
Because Cam didn't use the sandpaper with much force, there's multiple ways to do it without getting caught. A gentle rub every over or two would not be noticeable, unless you have eagle eyes, could also explain why it didn't reverse right after that rub.

Lehmann then Asks Peter to relay the message that they've been caught on tape. The more I think about it the more sinister it looks, you can draw your own conclusions.
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Based purely on CA's release, Smith has been penalized a minimum of $5 million in earnings, suspended from playing anything other than grade for 12 months, stripped of the captaincy and sentenced to 100 hours of community service

His "crime": not trying hard enough to stop two fools from carrying out arguably the most stupid scheme in sports history and not telling the whole truth at a presser

FMD, if FAF was Australian, he'd be holed up with Ivan Milat at Goulburn Jail with no chance of parole
I wonder if Smith could play "amateur" club cricket. Of course he never would for the amount of money he'd get, but if he did and a random club decided they wanted a guaranteed premiership they could offer him a few grand a game.
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Lying in front of the whole world is a big thing when he had the opportunity to state things as they are. What's the point in saying that they had used a tape (and tried to pick up granules using it) instead of stating that it was sandpaper.
Almost every accused ball tamperer ever that denied it has been "lying in front of the whole world". If that's your point of contention then it's not really a legitimate one.
 

anil1405

International Captain
Almost every accused ball tamperer ever that denied it has been "lying in front of the whole world". If that's your point of contention then it's not really a legitimate one.
Most of those tampering weren't caught red handed like in this case which had angered so many people. Lying in front of the press under such circumstances only made things worse for Smith.
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Most of those tampering weren't caught red handed like in this case which had angered so many people. Lying in front of the press under such circumstances only made things worse for Smith.
So basically you're saying the issue was that he lied and then got caught, whereas the other guys lied and got away with it
 

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