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Australian ATG Team- Open Voting
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
LongHopCassidy
International Captain
4. Chappell
5. Border
6. Waugh
Uncrackable.
5. Border
6. Waugh
Uncrackable.
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
As much as I love Boon and M.Waugh, can't see Boon either opening or batting at 3 here, and M.Waugh is very unlikely to be voted for ahead of anyone from the list, but as I said, feel free to suggest/add to the list.
Miller seems to cause the most controversy in Aus XI selections. Having a genuine fifth bowler is a magnificent luxury, but is it necessary? If you already have an attack of...
-Lillee
-McGrath
-Lindwall/Davo/Spofforth etc
and Warne/O'Reilly/Grimmett
...do you really need a fifth option?
I think if you play three quicks plus a spinner, that's enough for me. Australia did this very successfully with the combo of McGrath, Gillespie, Lee/Bichel/Kaspa and Warne/MacGill. I reckon the best bet for including Miller is if you want to select both Warne and O'Reilly.
But ****, it's MILLER! Just the thought of walking out with him would be awesome I reckon. High quality batsman, high quality bowler, gun slipper etc etc. Shagger extraordinaire. Fighter pilot.
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LongHopCassidy
International Captain
People like to piss and moan (especially me) about Miller compromising an Australian middle order, but it's worth remembering that The Don is effectively two batsmen. Australia could bat Gilly at 6 and play five bowlers for all I care, and still turn out respectable scores while having a pants-****tingly good attack. The happy coincidence of Miller existing makes him an auto-starter IMO. Think he should bat behind Gilchrist, though.
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Eds
International Debutant
I think it's incredible anyone can leave Miller out tbh. Particularly in a side containing Don Bradman. If any team in history can go light on batting, it's a side that contains the Don. Then there's the fact that a fifth bowler really isn't just a luxury. You've cited an example of a successful four-man attack, who have performed admirably at Test level. However, we're attempting to create a side that will play at a level above Tests, so to speak. I wouldn't trust an attack of any four [and four only] Australian bowlers to regularly bowl out batting lineups of ATG sides from England, WIs, South Africa et al.
The first point is the main one, though. In my mind, there'd still arguably be a case for Miller to be in the side if he was nothing more than a handy number 8 batsman, with Lindwall at 7 and Gilchrist at 6. Stacking the batting of a lineup that already boasts Don Bradman is just a massive waste. Stack the bowling ffs.
EDIT: Eight minutes too late.
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
Most of the great sides through history have four mainline front bowlers, and MAYBE one other adequate bowler to bowl a few overs here and there.
In terms of needing five bowlers, I don't think it's necessary. Just because we're selecting a team to play "above" test level doesn't mean we need more bowlers, because the bowlers we are selecting are four who are the best of the best. So really, it's the same conditions.
But, I'm not really disagreeing with you at all. 50% of the time I'd include Miller in my side. And I agree with the rationale that having Bradman at 3 and Gilchrist at 7 negates any (small) batting loss you'd experience from having Miller at 5/6.
adub
International Captain
I tend to agree that a fifth ATG bowler is over kill. We're talking about the four best bowlers in history together. You want them with the ball in their hands as much as possible, not cooling their heels at midwicket. Most of the guys you'd be looking at were great at long spells, not 4/5 overs and then see ya maybe in the next session kind of bowlers. You'd just end up running out of overs to use them effectively.
The only caveat to that would be as someone suggested if you were looking to play 2 of Warne, Tiger and Grum (although even with O'Reilly it's probably not needed).
Don't get me wrong, Miller is something special and the Gilly @ 6, Miller @ 7 idea has a lot of merit, but personally I'd go 6 bats, 4 bowlers, wkt for an ATG Australian side because that has generally been our most successful and classic team composition. Miller should still come into contention as one of those 4 (what an option as a no.8) because his bowling record demands it on it's own. His record is strikingly similar to Imran Khan's but I don't think anyone would be talking about Imran as batting 6 and the 5th bowler in a Pakistan ATG side. For mine the third quick is between Miller, Lindy and Davo with Davo just edging Miller in my mind (having passed on Simmo and Pup I have to get a Wests boy in there and the left arm variety at 20 is too good to pass up).
The only caveat to that would be as someone suggested if you were looking to play 2 of Warne, Tiger and Grum (although even with O'Reilly it's probably not needed).
Don't get me wrong, Miller is something special and the Gilly @ 6, Miller @ 7 idea has a lot of merit, but personally I'd go 6 bats, 4 bowlers, wkt for an ATG Australian side because that has generally been our most successful and classic team composition. Miller should still come into contention as one of those 4 (what an option as a no.8) because his bowling record demands it on it's own. His record is strikingly similar to Imran Khan's but I don't think anyone would be talking about Imran as batting 6 and the 5th bowler in a Pakistan ATG side. For mine the third quick is between Miller, Lindy and Davo with Davo just edging Miller in my mind (having passed on Simmo and Pup I have to get a Wests boy in there and the left arm variety at 20 is too good to pass up).
Michaelf7777777
International Debutant
Greg Chappell
Steve Waugh
Keith Miller
Steve Waugh
Keith Miller
Chappell G
Ponting
Miller
I want to pick both Warne and O'Reilly which means I think Miller is needed in the top 6. As others have said, having Bradman and Gilchrist means the sacrifice of a dozen runs per innings (and arguably it wouldn't even be that, if this contest brings out the best in Miller...) to include an allrounder in the top 6 shouldn't matter too much.
Ponting
Miller
I want to pick both Warne and O'Reilly which means I think Miller is needed in the top 6. As others have said, having Bradman and Gilchrist means the sacrifice of a dozen runs per innings (and arguably it wouldn't even be that, if this contest brings out the best in Miller...) to include an allrounder in the top 6 shouldn't matter too much.
bagapath
International Captain
It is a no brainer for me. If I can have 2 spinners in a 5-man bowling attack with a solid lower middle order then I will go for that composition every time. With don at 3 and gilly at 7, Miller's 3 wkts + 36 bat avg is more valuable than a 50 avg with no test standard bowling contribution from mccabe/harvey/ s.waugh/walters.
AndyZaltzHair
Hall of Fame Member
From my POV, the inclusion of Miller gives the awesome flexibility of selecting both O'Reilly and Warne and that too without losing much in batting department and Australia XI would always be stacked with genius top/middle order batsmen covering all grounds. Imagine both O'Reilly and Warne operating together, sheer nightmare for batsmen.
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Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Yep. Realistically Miller probably isn't good enough to bat six in an on-paper league against all the other all-time national sides, but Bradman and Gilchrist ensure Australia's batting is already very stacked, so it's a luxury one can definitely afford.
Miller definitely strikes me as someone who had the ability to go up a level or two above Test cricket and still maintain his output without the increase in standard nerfing him, which gives him bonus points. Furthermore, he's the absolutely ideal fifth bowler in that his bowling workload across his career wasn't very high, but the quality of his bowling when he did bowl was on par with the other greats of his time. He just fits in perfectly - particularly if you want to include two spinners, but even if you don't.
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Even this may not be quite the issue it's made out to be as other sides won't necessarily have better number 6 batsmen. The Windies will probably have Sobers at 6 who certainly is a better batsman, but other countries' xi's may probably include the likes of Botham, Faulkner, Mankad or Kapil Dev, Imran Khan or Mushtaq Mohammed, Reid or Cairns. Miller is better than many of those, comparable with all.
fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
'twas Napper's party trick - he played at least three other innings that were as impressive as that one
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
Which one are you talking about? He played several - WAG.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
The one that is legendary for me is - is 180 odd against bodyline that is described as a fierce display of hooking against incalculable odds as there were fielders everywhere waiting for it.
Not to mention his team mates falling like flies at the other end.