Andre Nel and sledging

[FaaipDeOiad]

That's right, after 10 years, new geenration fans will probably claim that Sarwan-Mcgrath never happened either. What next, Brian Charles Lara is a myth, there has nevern a cricketer with such a name, Mcgrath never even toured WI, all the time he was with his ailing wife. It was all the conspiracy of Sourav Ganguly and his men, isn't it ?

Err, they're totally different issues. Think about it for a minute - the Marsh to Botham incident is just a rumour. You know the story about the "it's red and round and weighs six ounces" "you know what it looks like, go fetch it" sledge? How many different people has that been attirubted to? Just because someone says that Marsh said that to Botham doesn't mean he did, and I've certainly never seen Ian Botham claim that anyone said it to him, and it was never caught in a microphone if it did happen. If Marsh says he didn't say it, and Chappell says that the Australian players were told not to comment on wives and girlfriends etc, and nobody who was actually involved in the game in any way says that it did happen, what reason do you have to disbelieve them?

 

[Sanz]

May be because they dont have a very good reputation when it comes to sledging. You wont believe a notorious thief when he says that he didn't steal something, would you ?

What next, there is no sledging in cricket, Merv Hughes is a saint and that David Boon only drinks Apple Juice ?

 

[C_C]

I'm not even going to bother with that.

Why not ? example too extreme for you ? You fail to see the logical continuity.

 

[C_C]

E.g. Hingis and Kournikova joking that Mauresmo is a man. Another, Coria saying that Hewitt's "Come on's!" are unsportsmanlike YET he spat toward him in the game. I say, as long as it's witty, in some ways messing with the other player's concentration (e.g. Warne calling Smith a Young'n at the start of every bowl Symonds did), EVEN with curse words it's okay.

ALL examples of uncouthness you are quoting are of the last 4-5 year stuff.
Which just enhances my overall point - that apologists who try to normalise deplorable behaviour through 'winning at all costs' mentality just fail to see the slow and steady slide from class to crud and from witticysm to uncouthness.
I guess some people's higher brain functions arnt very high.

 

[viktor]

Sorry mate, there is a reason these guys are called PUBLIC figures. They can do whatever they want when they are alone or with their families or something. When they are in front of the camera, playing sports for their country, they have certain responsibilities to live up to. Whether you like it or not, media personalities (which sportsmen generally are) DO heavily influence kids. And honestly, when you are representing your nation, you are NOT just yourself anymore. If people can't see that, they probably shouldn't be out there playing anyway. I am an engineer, I had two courses over 3 semesters about my responsibilities towards society and the world as a member of the engineering community. Sportsmen SHOULD know their responsibilities and behave accordingly. Is it okay for, say Shane Warne or Sachin Tendulkar, to commit murder and then have it explained away as something that THEY will do because they are fallible and have psychiatric issues?

Isn't it a little hypocritical? I personally would prefer a player who isn't averse to saying a few words on the pitch but is a decent human being off it.
As to the kids being influenced, with the media now a days, what the players do off the field is almost as well known as what they do on it.

 

[C_C]

As to the kids being influenced, with the media now a days, what the players do off the field is almost as well known as what they do on it.

Not really. Not even the tip of the ice berg really. I cant say more without libel suits left right and center. But lets just say i was a routine visitor to sharjah.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Look, swearing at a guy personaly is not the same as swearing at him in some cricketing context. Richards calling McDermott a f*cking coward for the way he played bouncers is acceptable, but Richards calling McDermott a f*cker who can only f*ck (that is, nothing to do with cricket, just downright personal insults) SHOULD NOT be allowed.

Yes I agree, but the 2nd example is not sledging. It is just abuse.

The first example is sledging, and is acceptable.

 

[viktor]

That may be HIS impression, a LOT of other former cricketers, esp. from India don't share that view. Cricket will test your mental toughness without guys like Steve Waugh's help. It will test your mental toughness through how you respond after having had 4 ducks in a row at the start of your test career, or through how you react to beeing booed off the pitch at your homeground. There is enough out there in cricket naturally as it is to test players' mental make up. I would say "Thanks, but no thanks" to STeve Waugh and other such players' offer to test players mental fortitude by themselves. And I would love the ICC to do the same.

Which former players?

Maninder Singh and Prabhakar, who indulged in a street fight in the Ranji trophy?? or are you referring to Vengsarkar who sledged Marshall so much on his first tour that he never forgave him?? I'm sure you would find a number of such instances in Ranji cricket.
There was also a Raman Lamba-Rashid Patel incident....

 

[viktor]

And Langer had nothing to say to his own pal Michael Slater, who not only abused Rahul Dravid, but also the umpire. I still have that video, it was clear that Slater didn't catch the ball cleanly, Not only was he trying to cheat by claiming a catch which wasn't there (and he knew it )but also et he had the audacity to abuse Rahul Dravid, and the field umpire who was none other than S Venkatraghvan. Since Justin is so fond of legacy and showing respects, Did he not know who VenkatRaghvan was ?

I'm sorry I can't hear the sound on that one.

 

[luckyeddie]

Okay. So lets threaten them by suggesting them getting gunned down if they dont get out soon.
Mental degradation. No problemo.

It's been done.

Alex Higgins (snooker) threatened someone with his 'IRA contacts' years ago.

 

[C_C]

It's been done.

Alex Higgins (snooker) threatened someone with his 'IRA contacts' years ago.

Ah. Righto.
You didnt have to tell me that my 'extreme example' which is 'utterly laughable and senasationalist' has been already carried out by a guy who specialises in poking a ball with a stick ( why do the whole 'ball and stick or just ball' gang utterly dominate sports anyways ?) over a nice flat table wearing bowtie, sipping champagne and doing polite little claps.
I mean.....threatening to gun down someone is sooo not a part of cricket and impossible to happen..like...ever. But it so is part of snooker, isnt it ? Cant people just see whats happening and what has already happened ? or do people simply refuse/lack the ability to analyse ?


PS: Whats the difference between snooker and billiards anyways ?

 

[Smudge]

PS: Whats the difference between snooker and billiards anyways ?

Holes.

And balls.

 

[andyc]

Holes.

And balls.

 

[archie mac]

I would just prefer if they turned up the 'Mikes' and let us hear what the players say. I quite enjoy the bi-play and love a clever sledge. Maybe it is just us Aussies?

 

[Smudge]

There were so many obvious jokes there, I thought I'd just leave the suggestiveness to the readers.

But then YOU had to come along with your emoticon. Sigh...

 

[luckyeddie]

PS: Whats the difference between snooker and billiards anyways ?

I can play snooker

 

[Ikki]

ALL examples of uncouthness you are quoting are of the last 4-5 year stuff.
Which just enhances my overall point - that apologists who try to normalise deplorable behaviour through 'winning at all costs' mentality just fail to see the slow and steady slide from class to crud and from witticysm to uncouthness.
I guess some people's higher brain functions arnt very high.

Yes, I agree, you're not too bright. Multitudes of players having problems with Hewitt in the last year. I fail to see how that proves your point. You compare cricket with Tennis, okay nice one. Be relative, compare it to more sports and you will see why Cricket is often degraded by fans of others sports for it's lack of roughness. Not saying that's a bad thing at all, but you're making it out worse than it is, and implying it will get worser with no real indication. How do you know before the 1980's sledging was worse and that the 1980's (as you keep exemplfying) wasn't just an outlier? I find that a tad bit stupid that you can take the progression from sledging to physical conflict. This shows you do not know what sledging is, you're talking about abuse. They're different and if you cannot decipher this, then it's you who will suffer, not those who can tell the difference and don't get their panties in a bunch.

 

[C_C]

Holes.

And balls.

Oh...just......itching...........for..........a.........***u....err nevermind.

 

[C_C]

I fail to see how that proves your point.

I know. Go back to my first comment and read through until you get it. Its in there and quite explicitly so. And others here have gotten it. I am not particularly fond of you, so i am not gonna bend over backwards trying to explain something pretty elementary to you. This will be my last attempt to make something very simple clear to you ( which i am sure it is, your deliberate attempt to fog up the fundamental chain of thought is rather amusing and reasonably passable, i must admit).

This shows you do not know what sledging is, you're talking about abuse.

As i've said before, i have no problem with sledging per se .
However the BULK of sledging today, unlike in the past, is abusive and its getting more and more so. This is a general progression in ALL sports, simply because of yer 'end justifies the means' type warped philosophy, bucketload of money and resources all fuelling such rather meaningless and piffle vocations such as whacking a ball in various different ways with various differet objects which tends to warp the mind and lose focus on the original objective- to friggin entertain people who are too lazy or too inept in getting laid.
But then again, i wouldnt expect you to see the larger picture and see how things were, how things are and logically, what things are progressing towards.
Just remember- each time you provide an excuse to be an utter moron douchebag on the field, you just made the current offense seem 'not so bad afterall' and the next offence is gonna be slightly worse.
Before it was one frustrated player talking about black labias and monkeys. Now its the crowd.
But like i said, given the sporting culture in OZ, i would be highly surprised if you saw it any other way.
You afterall, are following the engineer's prime directive towards obtaining your goal : If it aint broken, dont fix it.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Why not ? example too extreme for you ? You fail to see the logical continuity.

There is no logical continuity. Your example is absurd.

I am saying that there is some validity to the argument that mental strength is an important part of cricket. I gave a series of examples of why mental strength is a valuable attribute for a test cricketer, and one of the tests of the mental strength of an opposition is to put them off verbally.

I also said that screaming abuse at them wasn't really what sledging is about, because it's pointless, and obviously the ICC should crack down on such things, on the rare occasions that they happen. As they should with physical violence, racial abuse and so on.

Similarly, engaging in a criminal act in an attempt to win a cricket game is inappropriate. Telling someone that if they did not get themselves out you would kill them is in fact already illegal both through criminal law and through the laws of the game, as it basically amounts to match fixing, as well as blackmail and a few other things. That is, of course, assuming that the threat is a real one relating to a gunshot after the match, and not being hit with a bouncer or whatever. To suggest that allowing a few words to the batsman to try and break their concentration is equivalent to allowing the threat of murder if a batsman doesn't throw his wicket is completely stupid, and there is no logical continuity whatsoever.