Andre Nel and sledging

[honestbharani]

I don't need to counter you, I just reply to you to fuel you. You obviously haven't much experience in the sporting arena, or for that matter, a hostile environment. I'm lost as to which cricketer has shown inklings of saying "gonna shove an AK 47 up his rear end after the match". I'm lost, I thought this was cricket?

so did I? Yet you made it seem as though it was a test of who can take the trash dished out well the most? Whatever happened to batting, bowling and fielding? Is it just about talking trash?

 

[honestbharani]

Haha, knew Warne would come into this .

Did u also know that Harbhajan would come into this?

 

[honestbharani]

Parents are the only role-model a child needs. You're asking perfectly fallible men, like you and I, to behave puritanically simply because they are in the limelight of new media. Do you not think that cricketers of the past took drugs? Had affairs? Were wife-beaters? Swore like troopers?

Sorry C_C, it's not all "is there honey still for tea?".

Sorry mate, there is a reason these guys are called PUBLIC figures. They can do whatever they want when they are alone or with their families or something. When they are in front of the camera, playing sports for their country, they have certain responsibilities to live up to. Whether you like it or not, media personalities (which sportsmen generally are) DO heavily influence kids. And honestly, when you are representing your nation, you are NOT just yourself anymore. If people can't see that, they probably shouldn't be out there playing anyway. I am an engineer, I had two courses over 3 semesters about my responsibilities towards society and the world as a member of the engineering community. Sportsmen SHOULD know their responsibilities and behave accordingly. Is it okay for, say Shane Warne or Sachin Tendulkar, to commit murder and then have it explained away as something that THEY will do because they are fallible and have psychiatric issues?

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

so did I? Yet you made it seem as though it was a test of who can take the trash dished out well the most? Whatever happened to batting, bowling and fielding? Is it just about talking trash?

That's the point of the Steve Waugh quote I posted earlier. He said that test cricket was a test of a lot of things, including your mental toughness and so on as well as your cricket skills. That's why we talk about things like pressure on the cricket field, because it's more than just who the best batters, bowlers and fielders are, it's who performs the best under the conditions provided, and against the opposition provided.

 

[honestbharani]

That's the point of the Steve Waugh quote I posted earlier. He said that test cricket was a test of a lot of things, including your mental toughness and so on as well as your cricket skills. That's why we talk about things like pressure on the cricket field, because it's more than just who the best batters, bowlers and fielders are, it's who performs the best under the conditions provided, and against the opposition provided.

That may be HIS impression, a LOT of other former cricketers, esp. from India don't share that view. Cricket will test your mental toughness without guys like Steve Waugh's help. It will test your mental toughness through how you respond after having had 4 ducks in a row at the start of your test career, or through how you react to beeing booed off the pitch at your homeground. There is enough out there in cricket naturally as it is to test players' mental make up. I would say "Thanks, but no thanks" to STeve Waugh and other such players' offer to test players mental fortitude by themselves. And I would love the ICC to do the same.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

That may be HIS impression, a LOT of other former cricketers, esp. from India don't share that view. Cricket will test your mental toughness without guys like Steve Waugh's help. It will test your mental toughness through how you respond after having had 4 ducks in a row at the start of your test career, or through how you react to beeing booed off the pitch at your homeground. There is enough out there in cricket naturally as it is to test players' mental make up. I would say "Thanks, but no thanks" to STeve Waugh and other such players' offer to test players mental fortitude by themselves. And I would love the ICC to do the same.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree then. I think a word in the ear of the batsman to undermine their confidence or put a bit of pressure on them is a perfectly reasonable tactic in a cricket game. I put it alongside, say, crowding a player with fielders when they first come to the crease to stop them from getting comfortable, or bowling some bouncers at a guy who is a bit nervous against the short ball, or whatever else. It's part of the game.

Screaming abuse in their face is obviously inappropriate and the ICC can and should deal with it. But normal sledging along the lines of the stuff to Cullinan or the "it's a leg break, daryll" stuff or whatever is perfectly acceptable.

 

[Dasa]

That may be HIS impression, a LOT of other former cricketers, esp. from India don't share that view. Cricket will test your mental toughness without guys like Steve Waugh's help. It will test your mental toughness through how you respond after having had 4 ducks in a row at the start of your test career, or through how you react to beeing booed off the pitch at your homeground. There is enough out there in cricket naturally as it is to test players' mental make up. I would say "Thanks, but no thanks" to STeve Waugh and other such players' offer to test players mental fortitude by themselves. And I would love the ICC to do the same.

Very well said.

 

[honestbharani]

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree then. I think a word in the ear of the batsman to undermine their confidence or put a bit of pressure on them is a perfectly reasonable tactic in a cricket game. I put it alongside, say, crowding a player with fielders when they first come to the crease to stop them from getting comfortable, or bowling some bouncers at a guy who is a bit nervous against the short ball, or whatever else. It's part of the game.

Screaming abuse in their face is obviously inappropriate and the ICC can and should deal with it. But normal sledging along the lines of the stuff to Cullinan or the "it's a leg break, daryll" stuff or whatever is perfectly acceptable.

I am not saying it is a big issue. As I pointed out earlier, I am fine with the odd cricketing insult being thrown in, esp. if it is said in good fun. BUT it is not something that is NECESSARY, which is what Steve Waugh seems to be indicating. He seems to be of the view (and some of you here seem to share it) that it is the ONLY way a guy's mental strength is tested. It is NOT and it will NEVER BE. Do you mean to tell me that just because Hussey can take the odd sledge well, he has more mental strength than Murali or Warne, who have faced so many problems and have yet come back to bowl like absolute champions?


And I do think that personal insults should be taken out of the game as much as possible.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

No no, it's not the only way that mental toughness can be tested at all, and I doubt Steve Waugh would say that. Mental toughness can be tested in lots of different ways. It takes mental toughness to apply yourself and score runs on a difficult pitch against good bowling. It takes mental toughness to give up on attacking cricket to try and save a game for your team. It takes mental toughness to face quality bowling from both ends and a difficult situation but stick to your game and wait for the bad ball. It takes mental toughness to fight through physical pain, heat, tiredness etc and maintain your concentration and will to suceed. It takes mental toughness to get through the opposition purposefully targetting your weaknesses as a player. If you're a bowler, it takes mental toughness to get through being smashed to the fence half a dozen times and keep bowling to the best of your ability. And yes, it takes mental toughness to deal with a hostile crowd or taunts or pointed comments from opposition players while you are batting.

I think Steve's point was that it was all part of the same issue, and one of the tests that a player must pass in order to succeed in test cricket.

 

[honestbharani]

No no, it's not the only way that mental toughness can be tested at all, and I doubt Steve Waugh would say that. Mental toughness can be tested in lots of different ways. It takes mental toughness to apply yourself and score runs on a difficult pitch against good bowling. It takes mental toughness to give up on attacking cricket to try and save a game for your team. It takes mental toughness to face quality bowling from both ends and a difficult situation but stick to your game and wait for the bad ball. It takes mental toughness to fight through physical pain, heat, tiredness etc and maintain your concentration and will to suceed. It takes mental toughness to get through the opposition purposefully targetting your weaknesses as a player. And yes, it takes mental toughness to deal with a hostile crowd or taunts or pointed comments from opposition players while you are batting.

I think Steve's point was that it was all part of the same issue, and one of the tests that a player must pass in order to succeed in test cricket.

yeah, but it is not something that is exactly necessary.

 

[C_C]

I think Steve's point was that it was all part of the same issue, and one of the tests that a player must pass in order to succeed in test cricket.

Okay. So lets threaten them by suggesting them getting gunned down if they dont get out soon.
Mental degradation. No problemo.

 

[Sanz]

That's the point of the Steve Waugh quote I posted earlier. He said that test cricket was a test of a lot of things, including your mental toughness and so on as well as your cricket skills. That's why we talk about things like pressure on the cricket field, because it's more than just who the best batters, bowlers and fielders are, it's who performs the best under the conditions provided, and against the opposition provided.

What a ridiculous suggestion, I can belive people defend such nonsense with so much passion. May be you are right, we should start teaching this kind of mental toughness in our schools, so that every kid becomes mentally tough. No TBF, I lost a lof respect for Steve Waugh because he let Mcgrath, Warne etc. abuse every player in the world at will.

Common Brian Lara is a Cricket legend, an all time great. Steve Waugh was so busy in creating his legacy that he allowed Mcgrath to insult Brian Lara in front of whole cricketing world. I am disgusted to death every time I read what Mcgrath said to Sarwan about Lara. How would you feel if Freddie Flintoff asks same question to Ricky Ponting and replaces Brian Lara's name with Sir Don ? (Please note I am not suggesting that Freddie will do any such thing)

Was it warne that called Ronnie's Irani's mother a 'Whore' ? Also I remembe Michael Slater abusing Rahul Dravid for not walking and the fact was that Rahul was not out. Steve Waugh was a silent spectator then as well. There are just too many examples. It's mcgrath's abusive behavior that forced a guy like Sachin tendulkar to say '**** Off' or get lost or something like that (ICC Trophy Kenya) after hitting him for four and six.

If this is what cricket is going to be then I would rather not watch it, If this is what one needs to do win, then I would rather have my team lose every game.

 

[honestbharani]

What a ridiculous suggestion, I can belive people defend such nonsense with so much passion. May be you are right, we should start teaching this kind of mental toughness in our schools, so that every kid becomes mentally tough. No TBF, I lost a lof respect for Steve Waugh because he let Mcgrath, Warne etc. abuse every player in the world at will. (Please not I am not suggesting that Freddie will do any such thing)

Common Brian Lara is a Cricket legend, an all time great. Steve Waugh was so busy in creating his legacy that he allowed Mcgrath to insult Brian Lara in front of whole cricketing world. I am disgusted to death every time I read what Mcgrath said to Sarwan about Lara. How would you feel if Freddie Flintoff asks same question to Ricky Ponting and replaces Brian Lara's name with Sir Don ?

Was it warne that called Ronnie's Irani's mother a 'Whore' ? Also I remembe Michael Slater abusing Rahul Dravid for not walking and the fact was that Rahul was not out. Steve Waugh was a silent spectator then as well. There are just too many examples. It's mcgrath's abusive behavior that forced a guy like Sachin tendulkar to say '**** Off' or get lost or something like that (ICC Trophy Kenya) after hitting him for four and six.

If this is what cricket is going to be then I would rather not watch it, If this is what one needs to do win, then I would rather have my team lose every game.

yes, Steve Waugh was hardly the representation of what sports should be all about, for all his great back to the walls fightbacks.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Okay. So lets threaten them by suggesting them getting gunned down if they dont get out soon.
Mental degradation. No problemo.

I'm not even going to bother with that.

 

[Sanz]

I think Steve's point was that it was all part of the same issue, and one of the tests that a player must pass in order to succeed in test cricket.

And who really gave Steve Waugh that authority to test every cricketer he played with esp when he himself ffailed when he was up against it (Remember Ganguly's reverse dis-integration in India) ?

 

[honestbharani]

And who really gave Steve Waugh that authority to test every cricketer he played with esp when he himself ffailed when he was up against it (Remember Ganguly's reverse dis-integration in India) ?

And remember his whining about it after wards? Langer said that given all that Waugh had done in the game, he should have been shown more respect. Of course, they conveniently forget it when they face greats like Lara, who at one point in the mid 90s was so much better than Waugh that it wasn't even funny.

 

[Ikki]

so did I? Yet you made it seem as though it was a test of who can take the trash dished out well the most? Whatever happened to batting, bowling and fielding? Is it just about talking trash?

No, it isn't about that and the POV I'm speaking of is in opposition to C_C's. The way he depicts the eventual happenings of sledging...it wouldn't be far off to say he thinks WWIII will occur if cricketers start getting racist. It isn't acceptable, but I think our C_C here is overreacting.

Did u also know that Harbhajan would come into this?

Sorry, C_C makes it duty to knock-off Warne every which-way. He's always in there somewhere whilst Bhaju is not.

I was reading Inside Cricket and there was this nice two page piece of sledges and which ones were true and which ones were myth. I'll type out one:

Rod Marsh to Ian Botham: "G'Day Ian. How's your wife and my kids?"

FALSE: "It didn't happen." says Marsh. "It's not true at all." Ian Chappell concurs: "I wasn't playing in the 1977 series but Rodney would never have said that. We were always aware that references to wives, girlfriends, mothers etc were verboten."

 

[Sanz]

And remember his whining about it after wards? Langer said that given all that Waugh had done in the game, he should have been shown more respect. Of course, they conveniently forget it when they face greats like Lara, who at one point in the mid 90s was so much better than Waugh that it wasn't even funny.

And Langer had nothing to say to his own pal Michael Slater, who not only abused Rahul Dravid, but also the umpire. I still have that video, it was clear that Slater didn't catch the ball cleanly, Not only was he trying to cheat by claiming a catch which wasn't there (and he knew it )but also et he had the audacity to abuse Rahul Dravid, and the field umpire who was none other than S Venkatraghvan. Since Justin is so fond of legacy and showing respects, Did he not know who VenkatRaghvan was ?

 

[Sanz]

I was reading Inside Cricket and there was this nice two page piece of sledges and which ones were true and which ones were myth. I'll type out one:

Rod Marsh to Ian Botham: "G'Day Ian. How's your wife and my kids?"

FALSE: "It didn't happen." says Marsh. "It's not true at all." Ian Chappell concurs: "I wasn't playing in the 1977 series but Rodney would never have said that. We were always aware that references to wives, girlfriends, mothers etc were verboten."

That's right, after 10 years, new geenration fans will probably claim that Sarwan-Mcgrath never happened either. What next, Brian Charles Lara is a myth, there has nevern a cricketer with such a name, Mcgrath never even toured WI, all the time he was with his ailing wife. It was all the conspiracy of Sourav Ganguly and his men, isn't it ?

 

[Ikki]

I am not saying it is a big issue. As I pointed out earlier, I am fine with the odd cricketing insult being thrown in, esp. if it is said in good fun. BUT it is not something that is NECESSARY, which is what Steve Waugh seems to be indicating. He seems to be of the view (and some of you here seem to share it) that it is the ONLY way a guy's mental strength is tested. It is NOT and it will NEVER BE. Do you mean to tell me that just because Hussey can take the odd sledge well, he has more mental strength than Murali or Warne, who have faced so many problems and have yet come back to bowl like absolute champions?


And I do think that personal insults should be taken out of the game as much as possible.

Well I can't speak for others, but I don't mean to imply that it HAS to be or it SHOULD be in the game. I'm saying, as the nature of competitive sports is, these things are common place. Okay, some say Tennis, in Tennis there are many comments after the game that affect the two people's duel's during the game. E.g. Hingis and Kournikova joking that Mauresmo is a man. Another, Coria saying that Hewitt's "Come on's!" are unsportsmanlike YET he spat toward him in the game. I say, as long as it's witty, in some ways messing with the other player's concentration (e.g. Warne calling Smith a Young'n at the start of every bowl Symonds did), EVEN with curse words it's okay.

For me, some here are being really skewed. This is the world, it isn't perfect. Even taking sledging out there, other little mediums will be found to take shots at each other and possible worse ones. A comment here and there is okay by me. They're grown men, and I was thinking some here are as well. I think the situation as it is, is fine. If anything really out the ordinary is said/done I'm faithful (yes can you believe it?) that the ICC will take order.