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  1. #46
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    Bollox, Bun was never a valued member of the forum, he was like Omm, constantly inflammatory, that's the comparison you need. Personally would rather flibbertyjibber got banned then 27 buns remained, which they have.
    My post wasn't about Bun though; I don't really have any interest in debating the specific merits of certain posters on the open forum. My post was about the potential for using the forum atmosphere rule more liberally - be it for Bun or anyone else. I'm personally in favour of it but as I said, there are some downsides - firstly the community would have to put a lot of trust into the moderators to get it right, and secondly we might lose out on some potentially good contributors if we push the button too early.
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    Sanga has done well but Murali has done better. In my opinion, Murali is simply the best off spinner in history of cricket and I can't make that kind of statement for Sanga.
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  2. #47
    Global Moderator Fusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    Bollox, Bun was never a valued member of the forum, he was like Omm, constantly inflammatory, that's the comparison you need. Personally would rather flibbertyjibber got banned then 27 buns remained, which they have.

    Answer my post PRince, why are people being punished for calling a spade a spade.
    Because people have accused members of being multis in the past and were incorrect. We can't allow everyone to throw multi accusations around without sufficient proof. It derails multiple threads across the forum with the resulting back and forth. We have a system in place to deal with multis. Yes it's not perfect, but it's better than playing the guessing game. Let me remind you that it was this same system that eventually detected Bun as a multi. It took a while, I know, but we took immediate action when we got the proof we needed.

  3. #48
    International Coach morgieb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    My post wasn't about Bun though; I don't really have any interest in debating the specific merits of certain posters on the open forum. My post was about the potential for using the forum atmosphere rule more liberally - be it for Bun or anyone else. I'm personally in favour of it but as I said, there are some downsides - firstly the community would have to put a lot of trust into the moderators to get it right, and secondly we might lose out on some potentially good contributors if we push the button too early.
    Forum atmosphere bans don't have to perma's, do they? Just set it for a few months and if they come back a better person, good on them. If not, give them the perm.
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  4. #49
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgieb View Post
    Forum atmosphere bans don't have to perma's, do they? Just set it for a few months and if they come back a better person, good on them. If not, give them the perm.
    Indeed or, alternatively, we could just wait a bit longer on the trigger for them. All that just puts even more little opportunities for inconsistency into the system though and requires the moderators to get it spot on. I see it as more of a long-term thing really, when (ideally) the community has a better relationship with the moderators and more trust in them to consistently weed out those who make the forum worse. I'm not convinced we're at a stage where it wouldn't just make all hell break loose, so we currently only go down that particular path when we feel it's absolutely necessary, like with Sir Alex and aussie.


  5. #50
    International Coach morgieb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Indeed or, alternatively, we could just wait a bit longer on the trigger for them. All that just puts even more little opportunities for inconsistency into the system though and requires the moderators to get it spot on. I see it as more of a long-term thing really, when (ideally) the community has a better relationship with the moderators and more trust in them to consistently weed out those who make the forum worse. I'm not convinced we're at a stage where it wouldn't just make all hell break loose, so we currently only go down that particular path when we feel it's absolutely necessary, like with Sir Alex and aussie.
    Without dragging this Off-Topic or something like that, would I have got a forum atmosphere ban around 2007-08 if the rules were harsher?

  6. #51
    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    My post wasn't about Bun though; I don't really have any interest in debating the specific merits of certain posters on the open forum. My post was about the potential for using the forum atmosphere rule more liberally - be it for Bun or anyone else. I'm personally in favour of it but as I said, there are some downsides - firstly the community would have to put a lot of trust into the moderators to get it right, and secondly we might lose out on some potentially good contributors if we push the button too early.
    No and my point was never about Bun either, it was about you not seeing obvious multi's & trolls and then banning people for calling them, the mods are getting it wrong we have no faith in you, if you can't see obvious trolling, **** whether they're multi's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
    Because people have accused members of being multis in the past and were incorrect. We can't allow everyone to throw multi accusations around without sufficient proof. It derails multiple threads across the forum with the resulting back and forth. We have a system in place to deal with multis. Yes it's not perfect, but it's better than playing the guessing game. Let me remind you that it was this same system that eventually detected Bun as a multi. It took a while, I know, but we took immediate action when we got the proof we needed.
    Again, whether or not he was a multi, he was clearly a troll, only, well done for taking the immediate action months after most of us saw it.

    Sorry, I like Indian posters, by and large, but there does seem a bias for them,was Cevno warned for his ridiculous accusations against me recently. Which I think amounted to, "I really needed to get in early to start this argument, because he (me) was going to start the argument anyway, coz he's such a ****"
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  7. #52
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    I've previously all but pointed out on the open forum that I agree with this (minus the specific examples). It's something I think the mod team would be very willing to take on board if we felt we had the support of the wider community to just start turfing less good posters who are a net loss to discussion here, but we'd need a lot of faith which I don't think we really have at the moment.

    However - and I don't mean to pick him at all here - a good counter-example to this idea is flibbertyjibber. He's someone I would have forum-atmosphere-banned a little bit after he first arrived, but the more lenient system we have allowed him to get a few infractions (and a light ban IIRC?), figure out how the community worked and improve his posting. Now I wouldn't dream of banning him as he's a valued part of the forum.
    Forum atmosphere bans don't need to be permanent. I got a month for being a complete bell-end and constantly winding up Indian fans; if I'd come back and continued being a tool then I'd have got a longer ban. Having looked back on some of my posting I can definitely say I deserved to cop my ban but I take exception to one of the mod team remarking that I was the biggest drain on forum atmosphere given the conduct of other users.

    Ironically, part of the reason that I don't think you guys have the faith you need from the wider community to just start turfing idiots is because you're either too slow to do so; there were two idiots in particular who signed up during the World Cup who, after making about 5 posts each, were obviously crap posters, and IIRC one of India's latter stages match threads was completely ruined by them both, or because some posters get turfed for long periods of time whereas others who are equally destructive are only getting a week's break for accumulating 15 points.

    One other thing about mod policy recently; I think you guys recently have been far too quick to jump on the "serial offender" infraction. As crap a poster as OMM! was, jumping from a week's ban for infraction points to 6 months for being a serial offender seems to me to be a bit much, not that I'm campaigning for his ban to be shortened, the guy is a tool and the forum will be better off without him. Had it been 6 months for forum atmosphere (read: being an intolerable douchebag) then it would sit easier. As for Corrin's ban? UIMM prior to this ban he'd been banned twice for 3 days and 1 week. 6 months for being a serial offender for (ironically) going after Bun and accusing him of being a Precam multi just didn't make any sense, and IMO is a joke frankly. Corrin was warned not to do what he did but did it anyway; that's "continual disobedience" IMO. I fit the definition of "serial offender" much more closely, given that I've had 6 different infractions handed to me for "lack of respect, insulting or harrassing other members."

  8. #53
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    No and my point was never about Bun either, it was about you not seeing obvious multi's & trolls and then banning people for calling them, the mods are getting it wrong we have no faith in you, if you can't see obvious trolling, **** whether they're multi's.



    Again, whether or not he was a multi, he was clearly a troll, only, well done for taking the immediate action months after most of us saw it.

    Sorry, I like Indian posters, by and large, but there does seem a bias for them,was Cevno warned for his ridiculous accusations against me recently. Which I think amounted to, "I really needed to get in early to start this argument, because he (me) was going to start the argument anyway, coz he's such a ****"
    Sorry to sound like a broken record, but this is why infractions should be made public. It's hard not to feel like you're getting the rough end of the stick when you have no idea if people are being similarly punished for the same offences. I think part of the reason why there's been a perception that the moderators are biased towards certain groups is precisely because there's no way of knowing whether you're being treated fairly.

  9. #54
    International Coach HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    Agreed. Clearly Furball should be banned for 6 months.
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  10. #55
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    Agreed. Clearly Furball should be banned for 6 months.
    Should just pre-emptively ban me for the duration of the England-India ODI series, seeing as all those infractions are clumped together in 2 groups, which just happen to coincide with England and India squaring off in major events.

  11. #56
    International Coach morgieb's Avatar
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    Now that Bun's banned, can we reverse the GIMP ban?

  12. #57
    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    Sorry to sound like a broken record, but this is why infractions should be made public. It's hard not to feel like you're getting the rough end of the stick when you have no idea if people are being similarly punished for the same offences. I think part of the reason why there's been a perception that the moderators are biased towards certain groups is precisely because there's no way of knowing whether you're being treated fairly.


    yep, would like to say I've never been infracted, so I don't believe Cevno was treated worse then me, but all I did was make a casual statement. Still don't get what or why he said it, it was so odd. It was just like he'd singled me out, and I wouldn't have minded if it was one comment, but he kept on and on, justifying it. Even after a mod had mentioned it was an odd statement to make. very odd.
    Last edited by grecian; 29-09-2011 at 05:58 PM.

  13. #58
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    Forum atmosphere bans don't need to be permanent. I got a month for being a complete bell-end and constantly winding up Indian fans; if I'd come back and continued being a tool then I'd have got a longer ban.
    You didn't actually get a forum atmosphere ban though, did you? You accumulated infraction points.

    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    .. or because some posters get turfed for long periods of time whereas others who are equally destructive are only getting a week's break for accumulating 15 points.
    The problem here is that people - mods and members alike - simply have contrasting opinions. One man's equally destructive is another man's spilt milk, and putting trust in the moderators to just atmosphere-ban trolls really quickly would also require faith in their ability to make big decisions on behalf of the forum. The amount of scrutiny the mods are currently under, rightly or wrongly, means it'd be a dangerous toy to play with. There are numerous examples of an issue arising whereby part of the forum would think it was a disgrace or some sort of unjust inconsistency if moderators didn't act, and another part of the forum that would think it unfair should the moderators did act. You simply can't please everyone and until we have a more united community with more faith in the moderators overall, applying more discretion to bans outside the infraction system, particularly to new members, is a bit of a faraway dream.

    And as you know, I can't comment on the existence of the serial offender infraction.
    Last edited by Prince EWS; 29-09-2011 at 06:11 PM.

  14. #59
    Global Moderator Fusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    Again, whether or not he was a multi, he was clearly a troll, only, well done for taking the immediate action months after most of us saw it.
    When Bun trolled, he was infracted and if he accumulated enough points, he copped a ban. We kept asking people to report his trolling posts, instead of reacting to him directly. In my personal opinion, people's reaction to Bun was worse than his actual posting. If instead of reacting to him directly, they would've kept reporting him, he would eventually have been banned for just being a troll.

    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    Sorry, I like Indian posters, by and large, but there does seem a bias for them
    Nothing gets under my skin more than this accusation that we have a bias for Indian posters. You are impugning the integrity of all the mods when you make that accusation, and that really offends me. This accusation has no basis in fact whatsoever. We treat each member, each reporting post, the same. GF and SS were recent mods, ask them if they ever received any instruction (direct or indirect) to favor a group of posters. Don't you think at least one mod would've spilled the beans if such bias was part of the policy?

  15. #60
    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    You didn't actually get a forum atmosphere ban though, did you? You accumulated infraction points. Having looked back on some of my posting I can definitely say I deserved to cop my ban but I take exception to one of the mod team remarking that I was the biggest drain on forum atmosphere given the conduct of other users.



    The problem here is that people - mods and members alike - simply have contrasting opinions. One man's equally destructive is another man's spilt milk, and putting trust in the moderators to just atmosphere-ban trolls really quickly would also require faith in their ability to make big decisions on behalf of the forum. The amount of scrutiny the mods are currently under, rightly or wrongly, means it'd be a dangerous toy to play with. There are numerous examples of an issue arising whereby part of the forum would think it was a disgrace or some sort of unjust inconsistency if moderators didn't act, and another part of the forum that would think it unfair should the moderators did act. You simply can't please everyone and until we have a more united community with more faith in the moderators overall, applying more discretion to bans outside the infraction system, particularly to new members, is a bit of a faraway dream.

    And as you know, I can't comment on the existence of the serial offender infraction.

    PRews, must be your new name, we just want obvious ****es to be cited, sorry, the mod team aren't doing that, you can throw in as much verbiage, and smilies as you want, but it just remains some are getting away with crap, who have been finally proved as toxic, and others have been banned for months for pointing this out, whichever way you want to spin it, it's rubbish

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