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Playing selector: Pre Packer XI

bagapath

International Captain
To play with the CW Post Packer XI (http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/41515-post-packer-world-xi-discussion.html) we will be selecting a Pre Packer XI in the next few weeks.

This team will be chosen from a pool of players who scored more than 2000 runs or took more than 100 wickets between 1945, when test cricket resumed after the war, and April 10, 1979 when packer series ended. I know the finish date doesn't technically allow this to be called a Pre Packer XI. But, since we selected the previous team from April 11, 1979 onwards I have decided to select this team using stats till the day before that.

It doesn't change the player pool honestly since most of the great players g.chappell, tony greig etc went off to play in Packer series making their career stats freeze (for our purposes) before Packer series took off. Some greats (botham, for example) made their debuts within the time frame we have defined but they did not reach the minimum req and were up for selection only for the Post Packer team.

Some players like Sunil Gavaskar, Dennis Lillee, Greg Chappell and Viv Richards make the cut in both polls. I am keeping Lillee and Chappell in these polls but I will be leaving out Gavaskar and Richards because they are already in the other team. It is kind of sad because Gavaskar is statistically the best opener of the era:

SM Gavaskar (India) 1971-1979 46 85 6 4405 220 55.75 19 17 6

And Richards' numbers here are even more impressive than his Post Packer stats.

IVA Richards (WI) 1974-1978 26 43 2 2221 291 54.17 7 6 2

To avoid talking about their games once again, and to allow new names to come in to discussion, we will leave them out. If you want, we can conduct a combined poll later to create one team from these two and that might bring back these two names.

Will be starting the polls soon. Here is the order of polls.

1. Opening batsmen - 2
2. Wicket keeper - 1
3. Fast bowlers - 2
4. Middle order batsmen - 3
5. Two more bowlers (Top runners up from fast bowlers poll and spinners) - 2
6. Last player (mixture of all-rounders, bowling runners up and batting runners up) - 1
 
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adharcric

International Coach
Are you sure you want to leave Gavaskar and Richards out of the polls? They certainly shouldn't be in both teams but you're essentially gifting them to the post-Packer team just because we selected that team first. Perhaps you can keep them in the polls and if they end up in both teams, either have a pair poll (i.e. pre-Packer Gavaskar & Greenidge or pre-Packer runner-up & post-Packer Gavaskar) or a simpler one (i.e. pre-Packer Gavaskar or post-Packer Gavaskar, the loser's runner-up gets lucky). That may complicate things a bit but it'll make the process more exciting and both teams will have a fair shot at the best talent IMO. Moreover, members can still vote strictly on merit and not based on who already made another team.
 
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bagapath

International Captain
Are you sure you want to leave Gavaskar and Richards out of the polls? They certainly shouldn't be in both teams but you're essentially gifting them to the post-Packer team just because we selected that team first. Perhaps you can keep them in the polls and if they end up in both teams, either have a pair poll (i.e. pre-Packer Gavaskar & Greenidge or pre-Packer runner-up & post-Packer Gavaskar) or a simpler one (i.e. pre-Packer Gavaskar or post-Packer Gavaskar, the loser's runner-up gets lucky). That may complicate things a bit but it'll make the process more exciting and both teams will have a fair shot at the best talent IMO.
i am open to anything. lets hear from the other boys too
 

Michaelf7777777

International Debutant
Ignoring requirements for the poll my test team for 1946-1979 would be:

1. Arthur Morris
2. Sunil Gavaskar
3. Don Bradman (*)
4. Graham Pollock
5. Garfield Sobers
6. Keith Miller
7. Richie Benaud
8. Ray Lindwall
9. Don Tallon (+)
10. Alan Davidson
11. Fred Trueman
 

weldone

Hall of Fame Member
Ignoring requirements for the poll my test team for 1946-1979 would be:

1. Arthur Morris
2. Sunil Gavaskar
3. Don Bradman (*)
4. Graham Pollock
5. Garfield Sobers
6. Keith Miller
7. Richie Benaud
8. Ray Lindwall
9. Don Tallon (+)
10. Alan Davidson
11. Fred Trueman
Arthur Morris ahead of Sir Leonard Hutton is criminal...The rest of the side is very decent and well thought-out indeed...
 
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The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
Ignoring requirements for the poll my test team for 1946-1979 would be:

1. Arthur Morris
2. Sunil Gavaskar
3. Don Bradman (*)
4. Graham Pollock
5. Garfield Sobers
6. Keith Miller
7. Richie Benaud
8. Ray Lindwall
9. Don Tallon (+)
10. Alan Davidson
11. Fred Trueman
A great side mate - though I think you've left out the finest (or at least one of the top 2) opening bat since the war - Len Hutton. I'm thinking perhaps though you wanted the right/left combo at the top of the order, and considered Gavaskar ahead of Hutton for the right-hander's spot?

Reckon I'd also have Knotty in as keeper, but that team would take some beating. :)
 
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The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
OK, assuming that Gavaskar and Richards are both already in the post-WSC team, and that The Don doesn’t qualify, I reckon that leaves me with a First XI of something like:

Len Hutton
Arthur Morris
Everton Weekes
Greg Chappell
Garry Sobers
Keith Miller
Alan Knott
Ray Lindwall
Jim Laker
Fred Trueman
Dennis Lillee

And a Second XI that looks like:

Barry Richards
Geoff Boycott
Clyde Walcott
Graeme Pollock
Denis Compton
Frank Worrell
Richie Benaud
Alan Davidson
Godfrey Evans
Alec Bedser
Michael Holding

All that and still no place for Simpson, Harvey, May, Barrington, Greig, Bailey, Tyson, Statham, Barlow, Goddard, Procter, Hall, Roberts, Hanif, Mankad or ANY of the Indian spinners…
 
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Something_Fishy

School Boy/Girl Captain
OK, assuming that Gavaskar and Richards are both already in the post-WSC team, and that The Don doesn’t qualify, I reckon that leaves me with a First XI of something like:

Len Hutton
Arthur Morris
Everton Weekes
Greg Chappell
Garry Sobers
Keith Miller
Alan Knott
Ray Lindwall
Jim Laker
Fred Trueman
Dennis Lillee

And a Second XI that looks like:

Barry Richards
Hanif Mohammed
Clyde Walcott
Graeme Pollock
Denis Compton
Frank Worrell
Richie Benaud
Alan Davidson
Godfrey Evans
Alec Bedser
Michael Holding

All that and still no place for Simpson, Harvey, May, Barrington, Greig, Bailey, Tyson, Statham, Barlow, Goddard, Procter, Hall, Roberts, Mankad or ANY of the Indian spinners…
Those two have to swap.
 

bagapath

International Captain
this team is likely to have as good a batting line up as the post packer XI; it will probably lose out on spin bowling and lower order runs. i will keep that in mind while choosing this team.
 

bagapath

International Captain
Oh gees, didn't even think of that. Just comes so naturally. Would still have him in the team though (if there's no preWW2 team).
two years ago, we selected five teams from different eras covering the entire history of test cricket, converted them to two teams - one for pre WW2 and one for the 60 years after that - and then, finally, combined these two teams to make the ultimate all-time XI. it took eight months and three different poll conductors. it was great fun. you can see the thread here.

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cri...or-lets-pick-best-test-xi-different-eras.html

the post WW2 teams are different now since we have divided it into two eras instead three like we did before. but i expect the pre ww2 teams to be the same. so i am not sure if we should go there again. also, the interest level of the majority drops a little when you go further back in time and the arguments always tend to be based on stats and not on what is written about these players by good writers and contemporaries. let us see if we have many new forum members who want to do that.
 

Something_Fishy

School Boy/Girl Captain
two years ago, we selected five teams from different eras covering the entire history of test cricket, converted them to two teams - one for pre WW2 and one for the 60 years after that - and then, finally, combined these two teams to make the ultimate all-time XI. it took eight months and three different poll conductors. it was great fun. you can see the thread here.

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cri...or-lets-pick-best-test-xi-different-eras.html

the post WW2 teams are different now since we have divided it into two eras instead three like we did before. but i expect the pre ww2 teams to be the same. so i am not sure if we should go there again. also, the interest level of the majority drops a little when you go further back in time and the arguments always tend to be based on stats and not on what is written about these players by good writers and contemporaries. let us see if we have many new forum members who want to do that.
Thanks for that. Naturally I have my own opinions about a Best Ever XI but that's my own opinions (have to admit I'm amazed both Murali AND Warne in the team instead of another quickie - Spofforth or Lohmann or maybe even Lillee). And would personally have Headley in before Hammond but I agree that you can change but not really improve much. Good stuff.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
I want Boycott, Gavaskar and Hutton in the team. Will they be available for the middle order if they don't get picked for opening?
 

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