Lee as Good as Windies Quicks - Sir Viv

SJS · Jul 3, 2008

So....

- Lee is as good as the best of the West Indies which puts him close to the top of any all time list.

- McGrath seems to be already there it seems (close to the top of any all time list here).

- Warne is by most accounts the greatest leg-spinner, nay greatest spinner, nay greatest bowler of all times - so feels the majority.

So what do we have here over the period of the middle of the first decade of the new millenium, Australia have, far and away, the greatest bowling attack* in the history of the game and all playing at the same time and for the same country..... WOW.

I would have never known that

* Put three greatest bowlers of all times together then any fourth (and part time fifth) bowler would still make it a dream attack be his name Gillespie, Stuart Clark, Kasprowic or what have you.

Lillian Thomson · Jul 3, 2008

I think Viv must have been at the falling down water, unless he meant Colin Croft and Sylvester Clarke. Holding, Marshall, Roberts and Garner.........Brett Lee :laugh:

I can't believe he said it.

Richard · Jul 3, 2008

sideshowtim said:
In ODI cricket, he is undoubtably one of the greatest to ever hold the ball.

No, he's not. For much of his ODI career, there were as many as 2 or 3 bowlers better than him in his own team.

(They being McGrath, Gillespie, Bracken and Warne)

Perm · Jul 3, 2008

honestbharani said:
I assume he would walk into an Indian all time XI????????

Definitely IMO. India have had some fine quick bowlers, but a few who are considered to be their best didn't play that many Tests. I'm thinking along of the lines of Mohammad Nissar and Amar Singh.

SJS · Jul 3, 2008

Lillian Thomson said:
I think Viv must have been at the falling down water, unless he meant Colin Croft and Sylvester Clarke. Holding, Marshall, Roberts and Garner.........Brett Lee I can't believe he said it.

But then as Nina Gupta will tell you, you cant take Vivian seriously

Jakester1288 · Jul 3, 2008

In my opinion Brett Lee is pure class. He is an excellent bowler in both forms of the game as he showed throughout last season.

In my opinion last season was his best so far. I think he has matured as a bowler and has more control over his bowling. When he first came into the Australian sides he was like Shaun Tait is now, fast and irradical. Now he can bowl whatever he wants, be it a yorker on leg stump, a good length ball on off stump or a bouncer.

Right now I would rate him as the best bowler in the world. Only Steyn would be close in fast bowling, and he isn't really a well known bowler in One Day Internationals. Brett Lee is the ultimate bowler in my mind because he can bowl fast, swing it both ways, pitch it where he wants with control and bowl consistently well in both forms of the game.

archie mac · Jul 3, 2008

Jakester1288 said:
In my opinion Brett Lee is pure class. He is an excellent bowler in both forms of the game as he showed throughout last season.

In my opinion last season was his best so far. I think he has matured as a bowler and has more control over his bowling. When he first came into the Australian sides he was like Shaun Tait is now, fast and irradical. Now he can bowl whatever he wants, be it a yorker on leg stump, a good length ball on off stump or a bouncer.

Right now I would rate him as the best bowler in the world. Only Steyn would be close in fast bowling, and he isn't really a well known bowler in One Day Internationals. Brett Lee is the ultimate bowler in my mind because he can bowl fast, swing it both ways, pitch it where he wants with control and bowl consistently well in both forms of the game.

I agree he is in fine form, but would he make it into the WI great sides? I don't think so

Matt79 · Jul 3, 2008

SJS said:
So....

- Lee is as good as the best of the West Indies which puts him close to the top of any all time list.

- McGrath seems to be already there it seems (close to the top of any all time list here).

- Warne is by most accounts the greatest leg-spinner, nay greatest spinner, nay greatest bowler of all times - so feels the majority.

So what do we have here over the period of the middle of the first decade of the new millenium, Australia have, far and away, the greatest bowling attack* in the history of the game and all playing at the same time and for the same country..... WOW.

I would have never known that

* Put three greatest bowlers of all times together then any fourth (and part time fifth) bowler would still make it a dream attack be his name Gillespie, Stuart Clark, Kasprowic or what have you.

Except that Viv is really talking about Lee as the bowler he's matured into. And a lot of that maturing has happened in the last year of McGrath and Warne's career and since then. The Lee that was around in the period you're talking about would not fit into that category.

Richard · Jul 3, 2008

Basically, the Lee of a few months is as good as Roberts, Holding, Garner et al were for a decade.

WoWzas.

Could be said about a great many players TBH. Really not newsworthy IMO.

SJS · Jul 3, 2008

Matt79 said:
Except that Viv is really talking about Lee as the bowler he's matured into. And a lot of that maturing has happened in the last year of McGrath and Warne's career and since then. The Lee that was around in the period you're talking about would not fit into that category.

Well when we talk of the great West Indian fast bowlers of the 80's/early 90's, we do the same dont we. All of them did not have their peaks at the same time but their careers were overlapping. A couple of all time greats at their peak and another great bowler or two in the making - what more can one ask ?

As far as what Viv is saying and how you look at it, I presume you are talking of Lee at his peak. If so, he would have to be compared with another great of another era only at that worthies peak - right. If Viv says that Lee at his peak (so far) is as good as Holding at his peak or Marshall at his peak, or Andy Roberts at his peak, well I can imagine what stories he must have told poor Nina Gupta

Debris · Jul 3, 2008

Lee would walk into pretty much any ODI side ever.

As for tests, I have too many too recent memories of him bowling absolute ****e to forgive him yet. If he keeps up his current form for another couple of years, I might reconsider.

Manee · Jul 3, 2008

Richard said:
Basically, the Lee of a few months is as good as Roberts, Holding, Garner et al were for a decade.

It is not really about 'as good as' (despite it appearing in the quote) though, it is more about them reminding Sir Viv of how they used to bowl.

FaaipDeOiad · Jul 3, 2008

Richard said:
Basically, the Lee of a few months is as good as Roberts, Holding, Garner et al were for a decade.

WoWzas.

Could be said about a great many players TBH. Really not newsworthy IMO.

I don't think Viv is really suggesting any more than this though. You could easily read the quote as "Brett Lee's form in recent months is so good, it brings to mind the great West Indies quicks of the 70s and 80s". It's not really the same thing as saying "Brett Lee is as good as Michael Holding" or whatever.

Anyway I think Lee in recent times has bowled about as well as any fast bowler I've seen, so the comparison isn't that absurd.

Richard · Jul 3, 2008

FaaipDeOiad said:
I don't think Viv is really suggesting any more than this though.

No, I'm sure he's not. At least, I hope he's not.

As such, I think maybe this comment has received rather more attention than it should.

sanga1337 · Jul 3, 2008

Lee at the moment is in as good as form as some of the West Indies great fast bowlers were. Difference is that he has been bowling superbly for 2 and a half years where as most of the great West Indies bowlers were bowling superbly over a much longer period of time.

FaaipDeOiad · Jul 3, 2008

Richard said:
No, I'm sure he's not. At least, I hope he's not.

As such, I think maybe this comment has received rather more attention than it should.

It's just a glowing compliment from a former great about an opposition player. It's not earth-shattering, but it is cricket news.

silentstriker · Jul 3, 2008

sanga1337 said:
Lee at the moment is in as good as form as some of the West Indies great fast bowlers were. Difference is that he has been bowling superbly for 2 and a half years where as most of the great West Indies bowlers were bowling superbly over a much longer period of time.

A bunch of them only played 50-odd Tests. Holding makes no bones about that, how it would have been impossible to keep it up with the current workload on fast bowlers.

Jono · Jul 3, 2008

FaaipDeOiad said:
I don't think Viv is really suggesting any more than this though. You could easily read the quote as "Brett Lee's form in recent months is so good, it brings to mind the great West Indies quicks of the 70s and 80s". It's not really the same thing as saying "Brett Lee is as good as Michael Holding" or whatever.

Anyway I think Lee in recent times has bowled about as well as any fast bowler I've seen, so the comparison isn't that absurd.

Agreed for the most part. I've only really seen McGrath and Ambrose be considerably better (and Waqar in the 90s was better, but I can't remember that as too young) over a period of say 6 months. I'm not talking stats btw Richard so don't go quoting Donald or Akram stats. I think Lee has been on their par from just watching.

Richard · Jul 3, 2008

Nah, Lee will never, ever be better than Donald, or probably even on par, and I think that from both just-watching-without-looking-at-actual-performance and looking at figures. Yeah, he's been pretty close to for the last 6 months, but so what? As I say, there's a fair few players that've done that.

Jono · Jul 3, 2008

Like who? Who has been so awesome on such flat tracks and dismissed such gun batsman?

Most, if not everyone you name will be either a very very good cricketer, or a great.

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