Jasprit Bumrah vs Joel Garner

[Thala_0710]

The quality of wkt method by @ankitj is a strictly better method than this though imo.

The top 10 pacers of all time using away discount factors came out to be: (min 125 wkts away)
Bumrah, Ambrose, McGrath, Marshall, Garner, Barnes, Hadlee, Donald, Steyn, Holding
Ignoring the order.... That top 10 has a strong case to be the top 10 pacers of all time.
At slightly lower sample sizes, Davidson and Lillee get up there as well.

 

[ankitj]

Top order (1-3), Middle order (4-7), Lower order (8-11)
Bumrah: 31.4%, 39.6%, 29%
Garner: 32.8%, 33.6%, 33.6%

https://www.howstat.com/Cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerWicketAnalysisGraph.asp?PlayerID=0590

Still does. Bumrah isn’t listed on any of the highest percentage pages, nor on total wicket pages since he hasn’t taken enough, so I manually calculated from statsguru.

Garner 85 (32.82%) 87 (33.59%) 87 (33.59%)
Bumrah 68 (31.34%) 86 (39.63%) 63 (29.03%)

So Burmah has fewer lower order wickets % than Garner as well which reflects in average value of wickets too.

 

[Coronis]

McGrath has the 40% of top order wickets, which further cements him as the greatest new ball bowler of all time imo

Not as good as Zaheer or Vaas.

 

[ankitj]

McGrath has the 40% of top order wickets, which further cements him as the greatest new ball bowler of all time imo

Makes sense to add top and middle order into one bucket IMO

 

[Thala_0710]

Makes sense to add top and middle order into one bucket IMO

For specifically the new ball, I'm taking top order. For overall quality yes.

 

[Thala_0710]

Not as good as Zaheer or Vaas.

A lot of Asian pacers are quite high in that filter. Why might that be?

 

[Coronis]

So Burmah has fewer lower order wickets % than Garner as well which reflects in average value of wickets too.

A lot of Asian pacers are quite high in that filter. Why might that be?

These both have the same answer. Spinners.

 

[Thala_0710]

These both have the same answer. Spinners.

Yeah probably true

 

[kyear2]

Just see this:

How valuable is that wicket!

Added Bumrah, Cummins, Anderson and Rabada (and refreshed Steyn because he played well past the date I last updated this) # Bowler Wickets Bowling Avg Avg value of wicket Discount Factor 1 Jasprit Bumrah 215 19.49 30.41 64.1% 2 Sydney Barnes 189 16.43 25.02 65.7% 3 George...

www.cricketweb.net

Average of batsmen that Bumrah dismisses is comparable to those that Marshall, McGrath, Ambrose dismiss and much better than Garner. Era adjustment doesn't matter because Bumrah plays most of his games against top 4.

On quality and where he is in his career, where do you rank him now?

 

[Thala_0710]

On quality and where he is in his career, where do you rank him now?

On his career+quality I rank him as an ATG alongside the Holding, Garner, Trueman etc tier of pacers.
On pure quality and where I think he ends up is top tier alongside Marshall, McGrath and Barnes

 

[kyear2]

The top 10 pacers of all time using away discount factors came out to be: (min 125 wkts away)
Bumrah, Ambrose, McGrath, Marshall, Garner, Barnes, Hadlee, Donald, Steyn, Holding
Ignoring the order.... That top 10 has a strong case to be the top 10 pacers of all time.
At slightly lower sample sizes, Davidson and Lillee get up there as well.

Pretty good top10

 

[DrWolverine]

The top 10 pacers of all time using away discount factors came out to be: (min 125 wkts away)
Bumrah, Ambrose, McGrath, Marshall, Garner, Barnes, Hadlee, Donald, Steyn, Holding

Great top 10.

 

[kyear2]

On his career+quality I rank him as an ATG alongside the Holding, Garner, Trueman etc tier of pacers.
On pure quality and where I think he ends up is top tier alongside Marshall, McGrath and Barnes

Think I agree on both counts.

Getting past the Hadlee, Ambrose, Steyn, Warne, Murali group is next in line.

Still think he needs 300 for both tbh.

 

[kyear2]

Great top 10.

Yeah, away is where the real separation comes.

 

[govinda indian fan]

Think I agree on both counts.

Getting past the Hadlee, Ambrose, Steyn, Warne, Murali group is next in line.

Still think he needs 300 for both tbh.

Do you think as of now he is better then imran?

 

[kyear2]

Do you think as of now he is better then imran?

Better yes. Greater not as yet.

 

[kyear2]

Do you think as of now he is better then imran?

Let me out it this way.

If the Squad from Proxima B showed up right now with a time machine, for two tests series, home and away.... The only reason he's not in the XI is because I'm not sure how he holds up, and if he has to be managed through the series and matches themselves.

So right now it's still a toss up between him and Wasim for the spot.

That's the biggest thing right now.

 

[ma1978]

GOATs - Marshall, Mcgrath, Hadlee

inner Circle ATGs - Akram, Steyn, Donald, Ambrose, Imran, Lillee

Undeniable ATGs - Garner, Holding, Bumrah, Trueman, Lindwall

ATGs with Asterisks - Anderson, Walsh, Barnes, Davidson, Rabada, Cummins

clearly current players have room to move

 

[Johan]

Barnes is kinda a GOAT contender and I hold Lillee and Trueman as equal.

 

[DrWolverine]

Lillee. Trueman.
They rarely played in the subcontinent.

Like @subshakerz said even Ambrose and Garner barely played in Asia and in the few matches he played, their records are not really that impressive.