*Official* 2022 New Zealand Tour of England, Ireland, Scotland & Netherlands

[ataraxia]

God it's annoying when Skyliner is (largely) right.

But it's more annoying to see put to the field a fabulous collection of players, only for them to be completely misused.

 

[TheJediBrah]

No fan base here is more reactionary than the kiwis

 

[SteveNZ]

God it's annoying when Skyliner is (largely) right.

But it's more annoying to see put to the field a fabulous collection of players, only for them to be completely misused.

Yeah, that kinda sucks. But in that case, he is. It did more than expected? Holy ****. When you bat first in England, how can you not be expecting it to do at least a little? With one of the best swing bowlers of all time in the opposition? Crazy.

I am convinced over time that I will be right about Will Young/Conway, if they don't ruin him as an opener then drop him. Just in no way is it the best fit for this side.

 

[Shady Slim]

Comments from Stead white-washing poor performance, just what you’d expect from the bloke:

“Fifty runs off eight innings from them is not ideal….We just got caught on a pitch that was doing a lot more with the new ball than what we anticipated”.

Translation: Tom and the boys really wish they were back at Hagley.

Why on earth would anyone expect a Dukes ball to do a bit on the first morning of a test in England? The top order must have been shell shocked to find the ball was ‘doing a bit’.

Now he just needs to explain the poor shot selection & the second innings carbon copy failures.

‘Stead has ruled out Will Young switching to No 4 and Devon Conway moving up to open as a possible tweak’.

Yes, just bury your head in the sand Gary. Pig headedness is your solution, yet again.

clown take

it's known that lords of late has been one of the roadier england pitches compared to many others

 

[Mike5181]

Yeah, that kinda sucks. But in that case, he is. It did more than expected? Holy ****. When you bat first in England, how can you not be expecting it to do at least a little? With one of the best swing bowlers of all time in the opposition? Crazy.

I am convinced over time that I will be right about Will Young/Conway, if they don't ruin him as an opener then drop him. Just in no way is it the best fit for this side.

I mean it's self preservation. Stead isn't going to risk destroying Conway when everyone is convinced he's one of the best bats in the world, that'll be directly traced back to him. Will Young hasn't shown he's up to it yet so it's easier to throw him under the bus. Well, maybe the guy was just never up to it, regardless of position.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

clown take

it's known that lords of late has been one of the roadier england pitches compared to many others

You mean Lord's where IRELAND bowled England out for 85 in the 1st innings 2 or 3 years ago?

 

[Shady Slim]

You mean Lord's where IRELAND bowled England out for 85 in the 1st innings 2 or 3 years ago?

i put to you this is because england's top order of recent history has been precisely worth of being bowled out for 85 by ireland on a placid pitch

 

[Fuller Pilch]

If Young stays opening (as this appears) and Nicholls comes back, Mitchell may need to bowl more overs (especially if Ajaz plays again). He's taken quite a few wickets in the Plunket Shield at under 30 apiece, but only 2 test wickets at 80 in tests and looked fairly innocuous. If Wagner or Henry play instead of Ajaz, Mitchell's bowling will be much less important.

 

[Chubb]

You mean Lord's where IRELAND bowled England out for 85 in the 1st innings 2 or 3 years ago?

Remember, Tim Murtagh had been bowling sides out at Lords for like 15 years before he got that chance. I think England were unbelievably stupid to give him that opportunity.

 

[greg]

Oh no, I agree. It was just the way he worded it - 'pathetic' was such a laughable, tabloid way to label a shot. It was possibly ill-judged, but it was a decent nut and it's not like he lifted his head and swung for cow corner.

For the full impact you have to note his almost immediately precedent comment when Bairstow had hit 3 fours in an over. Something along the lines of "a bit risky, but you've just got to accept that that is the way that he plays".

 

[GIMH]

clown take

it's known that lords of late has been one of the roadier england pitches compared to many others

You can play on the M25 and still expect the new ball to do a bit in the morning in England though

 

[Moss]

I am convinced over time that I will be right about Will Young/Conway, if they don't ruin him as an opener then drop him. Just in no way is it the best fit for this side.

I think this shows how vital Jeet Raval was to the chemistry of the side before his loss of form and confidence. Was probably not much more than decent and seemed to divide opinion on this forum; but having two adequate full-time openers while the other batsmen to battle it out for middle order slots is far better for stability than the “let’s try to get them all into the XI by converting someone into an opener” approach. I hope the Ravindra-as-opener project is successful, seems important for the future of the test side.

 

[SteveNZ]

You can play on the M25 and still expect the new ball to do a bit in the morning in England though

Yeah, this. For Stead to say that, just bemuses me. I find it weak.

 

[SteveNZ]

I think this shows how vital Jeet Raval was to the chemistry of the side before his loss of form and confidence. Was probably not much more than decent and seemed to divide opinion on this forum; but having two adequate full-time openers while the other batsmen to battle it out for middle order slots is far better for stability than the “let’s try to get them all into the XI by converting someone into an opener” approach. I hope the Ravindra-as-opener project is successful, seems important for the future of the test side.

Wow, I have to admit I didn't think I would wake up to 'this shows how vital Jeet Raval was'.

But I completely take your point. The converting someone into an opener move, holy ****. We've given that option a red-hot go over the years, haven't we? How many times has it worked - once in Perth in 2001?

I agree - I want the Ravindra as opener project to go full steam ahead. Who cares if he bowls, I want him there because mentally and technically he has grown up as one. Get as much red ball stuff into him as possible (he's a sub-par T20 player anyway) and develop the **** out of him, then give him a LONG time once he's in the side. Then pick Kane, Conway, Young in that order, followed by Mitchell etc.

 

[Starfighter]

clown take

it's known that lords of late has been one of the roadier england pitches compared to many others

First innings batting average of 22.03 over the past five years.

 

[SteveNZ]

First innings batting average of 22.03 over the past five years.

Nice. A perfectly played stat to put that to bed. Well played

 

[nzfan]

Wow, I have to admit I didn't think I would wake up to 'this shows how vital Jeet Raval was'.

But I completely take your point. The converting someone into an opener move, holy ****. We've given that option a red-hot go over the years, haven't we? How many times has it worked - once in Perth in 2001?

I agree - I want the Ravindra as opener project to go full steam ahead. Who cares if he bowls, I want him there because mentally and technically he has grown up as one. Get as much red ball stuff into him as possible (he's a sub-par T20 player anyway) and develop the **** out of him, then give him a LONG time once he's in the side. Then pick Kane, Conway, Young in that order, followed by Mitchell etc.

I think it's time to put Darryl Mitchell's name every time you pick a team, red ball or white ball. I guess he's got to be there given he has delivered time and again no matter where he was slotted in and whatever format. Conway of course is going to be there as he's likely the best player right now on form. Then Kane and the rest.

 

[SteveNZ]

I think it's time to put Darryl Mitchell's name every time you pick a team, red ball or white ball. I guess he's got to be there given he has delivered time and again no matter where he was slotted in and whatever format. Conway of course is going to be there as he's likely the best player right now on form. Then Kane and the rest.

Yeah, 100%. Good player, bit like Henry Nicholls in he scores runs in the right situations - the T20 World Cup semi, Lord's etc. And he's your 5, he's not an all-rounder.

 

[TheJediBrah]

First innings batting average of 22.03 over the past five years.

oof brutal

 

[straw man]

But I completely take your point. The converting someone into an opener move, holy ****. We've given that option a red-hot go over the years, haven't we? How many times has it worked - once in Perth in 2001?

Ah the noughties, where we (ok John Bracewell) jerked around a succession of batsmen by making them open, none of whom went on to have long careers for NZ.
Vincent, Sinclair, Fulton, the Marshalls (briefly), have I forgotten any?

Yes, most listed would have struggled long term to make the grade anyway, but being opener or nothing can't have helped.

Young is a better batsman than those above I think, though debateable against the two that went on to rack up enormous domestic runs and may have contributed more to NZ if they'd been allowed a good run at preferred spots of 4/5/6 - Sinclair and Fulton.