***Official*** South Africa in New Zealand 2017

[Black_Warrior]

I know Bavuma is one of the most loved cricketers on CW but he is now averaging 30 after 18 test matches without a test hundred in over a year. At what point do we actually have a look at Bavuma the test batsman and not the cuddly teddy bear?

 

[straw man]

There may be extra changes, too, with Mitchell Santner likely to miss out for either Matt Henry or Colin de Grandhomme, as offspinner Jeetan Patel looks set for his first test on his home ground in Wellington.

"There's still a couple of question marks around a couple of players. I can confirm I'll come in for Trent and Neil Broom comes in for Rossco. They'll finalise the rest of the side tomorrow," Southee said.

Not unexpected I guess that they're going back to one spinner and that it's Patel. Tbh I do think Patel is our best available spinner right now, though whether you think Santner (or others') batting and future development puts them ahead is a reasonable discussion.

Playing CDG as fourth bowler would be ridiculous though.

Latham
Raval
Williamson
Broom
Nicholls
Neesham
Watling
Santner/Henry
Wagner
Patel
Southee

 

[straw man]

I know Bavuma is one of the most loved cricketers on CW but he is now averaging 30 after 18 test matches without a test hundred in over a year. At what point do we have actually look at Bavuma the test batsman and not the cuddly teddy bear?

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Not unexpected I guess that they're going back to one spinner and that it's Patel. Tbh I do think Patel is our best available spinner right now, though whether you think Santner (or others') batting and future development puts them ahead is a reasonable discussion.

Playing CDG as fourth bowler would be ridiculous though.

Latham
Raval
Williamson
Broom
Nicholls
Neesham
Watling
Santner/Henry
Wagner
Patel
Southee

Honestly I'd take Patel's batting over Santner's at the moment.

 

[StephenZA]

I know Bavuma is one of the most loved cricketers on CW but he is now averaging 30 after 18 test matches without a test hundred in over a year. At what point do we actually have a look at Bavuma the test batsman and not the cuddly teddy bear?

See SA selection thread many ongoing discussions.....
but basically, would rather replace Duminy, personally tired of him scoring an occasional good score followed by many bad ones, and he has been given enough opportunity. Bavuma needs to start converting good 30`s/50`s+ (normally scored at crucial times,really bad run against SL, but he can continue to be given opportunity as long as we keep winning.... Cook has solidified his spot but still has question marks. Amla a big worry but its Amla.... SA batting brittle but Elgar, Faf and QDK have all done really well with Philander and Maharaj chipping in with good scores. Things unlikely to change unless we start losing.

 

[Black_Warrior]

The problem though is that things can change pretty fast in test cricket. You might be losing non stop and then once game turns around everything and vice versa

South Africa have a tough overseas tour coming up in England this summer, ideally you wouldn't want too many changes during that series..so ideally you want to have a settled top order before you embark. So far South Africa's superior bowling attack have made up for their somewhat brittle batting line up but you do want to fix the holes sooner rather than later.

 

[StephenZA]

The problem though is that things can change pretty fast in test cricket. You might be losing non stop and then once game turns around everything and vice versa

South Africa have a tough overseas tour coming up in England this summer, ideally you wouldn't want too many changes during that series..so ideally you want to have a settled top order before you embark. So far South Africa's superior bowling attack have made up for their somewhat brittle batting line up but you do want to fix the holes sooner rather than later.

Agreed... losing Rillee probably slowed the change`s in SA team down, but de Bruyn is a fantastic player and should be in the team.

 

[Zinzan]

Boult out of the 2nd test - huge blow given Taylor's absence, though I suppose no worse than what SA are having to go through missing AB and Steyn.

Sounds like Henry will replace him.

How's that weather forecast & can rain somehow save our bacon? That's all that will if we're honest.

Not overly excited about Henry being the replacement, still doesn't seem to be able to consistently bowl test match lengths for me. I would have preferred a boulter (pun & spell error intended) like Kuggs.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Not unexpected I guess that they're going back to one spinner and that it's Patel. Tbh I do think Patel is our best available spinner right now, though whether you think Santner (or others') batting and future development puts them ahead is a reasonable discussion.

Playing CDG as fourth bowler would be ridiculous though.

Latham
Raval
Williamson
Broom
Nicholls
Neesham
Watling
Santner/Henry
Wagner
Patel
Southee

I wouldn't play CDG as the 4th bowler - I'd give him the new ball with Southee. Later on he can bowl into the wind when Wagner and Patel need a break. Neesham can bowl a bit downwind - will be our fastest bowler.

I know it is defeatist but I'd bat Watling at 6, Neesham at 7 and CDG at 8 partly because otherwise we are very fragile if Williamson gets knocked over early.

 

[Marius]

I know Bavuma is one of the most loved cricketers on CW but he is now averaging 30 after 18 test matches without a test hundred in over a year. At what point do we actually have a look at Bavuma the test batsman and not the cuddly teddy bear?

See SA selection thread many ongoing discussions.....
but basically, would rather replace Duminy, personally tired of him scoring an occasional good score followed by many bad ones, and he has been given enough opportunity. Bavuma needs to start converting good 30`s/50`s+ (normally scored at crucial times,really bad run against SL, but he can continue to be given opportunity as long as we keep winning.... Cook has solidified his spot but still has question marks. Amla a big worry but its Amla.... SA batting brittle but Elgar, Faf and QDK have all done really well with Philander and Maharaj chipping in with good scores. Things unlikely to change unless we start losing.

The SA selectors have been pretty good with being loyal to their players. Guys know that two or three bad scores won't see them dropped, and I think that's a good policy. For example, Stephen Cook knows he's probably safe until after England - and possibly the same applies to Temba and Duminy.

That said, Bavuma probably does have a bit more rope than Duminy and Cook, and we all know why.

 

[StephenZA]

The SA selectors have been pretty good with being loyal to their players. Guys know that two or three bad scores won't see them dropped, and I think that's a good policy. For example, Stephen Cook knows he's probably safe until after England - and possibly the same applies to Temba and Duminy.

That said, Bavuma probably does have a bit more rope than Duminy and Cook, and we all know why.

Agree... but lets be honest here, Duminy has had more rope than most batsmen combined in the SA team for the last 5/8 years. Besides quota, it had to do with us not having any allrounders after Kallis and they where hoping that he could help fill that role and also because he is such a talented player they kept on in the hope he would come good. He has shown glimpses now and again but has never lived up to his true potential. Duminy is a more talented batsmen than Bavuma... but I trust Bavuma more than Duminy to get us out of a scrape now days. If I had to choose between Duminy and Bavuma, its Bavuma.

 

[Marius]

Agree... but lets be honest here, Duminy has had more rope than most batsmen combined in the SA team for the last 5/8 years. Besides quota, it had to do with us not having any allrounders after Kallis and they where hoping that he could help fill that role and also because he is such a talented player they kept on in the hope he would come good. He has shown glimpses now and again but has never lived up to his true potential. Duminy is a more talented batsmen than Bavuma... but I trust Bavuma more than Duminy to get us out of a scrape now days. If I had to choose between Duminy and Bavuma, its Bavuma.

Yeah, I agree.

Duminy is better to watch than Bavuma, but if we're 20/3 I'd rather have Bavuma come in than Duminy.

At the moment, I would rather see De Bruyn come in for Duminy.

 

[SeamUp]

Agree with you boys but playing devils advocate here, Duminy has played 3 crucial knocks in position of need in the last 6 months v NZL at home, v AUS at Perth and v SRL at Wanderers and the last two were 140+ scores counter-punching.

 

[StephenZA]

Bavuma played 2 important knock in Aus and in the last match against NZ. SL tour he was abyssal.... the sad thing here is if we took colour out of it. Rillee and deBruyn (possible van Zyl) would be playing instead of either of these two.

 

[Marius]

Bavuma played 2 important knock in Aus and in the last match against NZ. SL tour he was abyssal.... the sad thing here is if we took colour out of it. Rillee and deBruyn (possible van Zyl) would be playing instead of either of these two.

Yeah, Van Zyl is an interesting one. He deserved to be dropped but he was playing out of position. Would have been good to see him get an extended run in the middle order.

 

[SeamUp]

Bavuma played 2 important knock in Aus and in the last match against NZ. SL tour he was abyssal.... the sad thing here is if we took colour out of it. Rillee and deBruyn (possible van Zyl) would be playing instead of either of these two.

We've acknowledged that.

Just thought I would spice up the debate with JP facts.

But nail on head on situation when they both could easily be replaced tomorrow if situations were different. The cold hard fact is Duminy has been given plenty games like Rudolph,Dippenaar, McKenzie mach 1 were given and they moved on.

And we all love Temba but someone said his FC ave is 37 so a test average of 30 at this stage shouldnt be a big surprise.

 

[StephenZA]

And we all love Temba but someone said his FC ave is 37 so a test average of 30 at this stage shouldnt be a big surprise.

Yeah not a good FC avg... but do think he has improved considerably since entering the national setup.

 

[NZTailender]

Heard on the radio Southee will replace Boult, and undecided if Henry will replace Patel.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Being cognisant of PR stuff is one thing, but not picking a player the selectors believe warrants a place in the side (assuming they do) for this very reason really is tail wagging dog stuff IMO.

There'd be few arguments about his non-selection had he been found guilty, but he wasn't...end of.

Picking a player barely a month after ending a reasonably high profile rape case (for NZ standards) is an absolutely awful look and they'd be wise to hold off for a series or two while things cool down. I don't personally have a problem with being selected now that he's not guilty (still think he's a **** of the highest order) as he's an awesome cricketer, but NZC's hesitancy is warranted.

 

[Zinzan]

Picking a player barely a month after ending a reasonably high profile rape case (for NZ standards) is an absolutely awful look and they'd be wise to hold off for a series or two while things cool down. I don't personally have a problem with being selected now that he's not guilty (still think he's a **** of the highest order) as he's an awesome cricketer, but NZC's hesitancy is warranted.

We'll have to agree to disagree. For me if anything, I'd like to see NZ cricket stand staunchly in support of him as soon as they feel he warrants selection. In many ways the earlier the better, almost to make the point that they're not going to let the fact it was high profile (by NZ standards) effect him given he was not-guilty.