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Yasir, Ashwin and Herath
- Thread starter Xuhaib
- Start date
AndyZaltzHair
Hall of Fame Member
Lyon's tally against left handers is surprisingly low.
cnerd123
likes this
It's awesome at club level when you have overused/old/artificial pitches and batsmen who all love to slog through midwicket. It's the easiest and laziest way to get wickets.
Just gets less useful the higher the level of cricket you play.
Blocky
Banned
Shah's performance in the UK indicated he tended to be a sub continent specialist like Ashwin and Herath are.
Herath bullied Zimbabwe at home recently, but he's not performed away from the sub continent.
Ashwin hasn't performed anywhere but the sub continent.
I'd argue since Graeme Swann's retirement, no spinner has been able to perform in all conditions. Lyon would arguably be closest, but I'm loathe to give him much credit at all for the wickets he takes.
Herath bullied Zimbabwe at home recently, but he's not performed away from the sub continent.
Ashwin hasn't performed anywhere but the sub continent.
I'd argue since Graeme Swann's retirement, no spinner has been able to perform in all conditions. Lyon would arguably be closest, but I'm loathe to give him much credit at all for the wickets he takes.
Blocky
Banned
Very few get enough rotation on the ball to make it drift/dip and rip and those that do get a lot of rotation on the ball don't tend to have the accuracy. They're also facing a lot of right handed batsmen in most teams which negates quite a few wicket taking options for them, but also, they've just not been good enough at creating pressure and winking out wickets. Less (legal) variations too, where a good leggie can bowl the wrong'un, the doosra still seems to be a "ICC should really ban this action" delivery and the Carom ball is so inaccurate.
cnerd123
likes this
I don't think it's a 'low ceiling', it's just exceptionally hard to put enough revs on the ball with just your fingers to be effective in all conditions. Add to that the trade-off between overspin and sidespin, and the difficulty with making the ball go the other way with a clean action, it's actually a pretty tough art to master.
It's arguably the easiest to pick up but hardest to master IMO. Once you have reasonable amount of pace as a fast bowler or reasonable amount of accuracy as a leggie you're quite set. As an offie you got to do a lot more to be just as good.
Blocky
Banned
I think if more Off Spinners went around the wicket to right hand batsmen, tossed the ball up and looked to straighten it after pitching on middle, they'd get a lot more wickets now that DRS is in place.
I lost track of the amount of times Vettori (and Swann) had LBW decisions go against them that were basically plumb, because umpires very rarely ever gave wickets out on the around-the-wicket angle.
I lost track of the amount of times Vettori (and Swann) had LBW decisions go against them that were basically plumb, because umpires very rarely ever gave wickets out on the around-the-wicket angle.
AndyZaltzHair
Hall of Fame Member
There is a difference between pitches in india/sl and in uae bar sharjah maybe. Also Yasir wasn't a complete muck in UK. He fell away in the middle of the series true but its not the justification that he's only sub continental specialist yet. The tour of NZ and Aus will give a better reflection.
smash84
The Tiger King
Isn't it much easier to be more accurate with finger spin? Also with DRS they should be in the game much more often i would think
OverratedSanity
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Yasir contributed greatly to the two matches Pakistan won in England and he deserves credit for that. He was piss poor in the other three but it's still more than what Ashein/Herath have produced.
cnerd123
likes this
Yea and I think that's why so many finger-spinners are good limited overs bowlers or good holding bowlers. Accuracy can build pressure, but alone isn't enough to defeat top level batsmen.
smash84
The Tiger King
I missed the fifth match
AndyZaltzHair
Hall of Fame Member
Shouldn't have because it was a crackerI missed the fifth match
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
oh so that was the game Misbah and Cook were talking about. I'll take Misbah's word then..we won 3-2
AndyZaltzHair
Hall of Fame Member
fair and square
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
Herath and Yasir have performed in South Africa, Australia and England, to varying degrees. True, maybe not quite as consistent in all conditions as Swann.
But they're both significantly better than Swann ever was, overall. Not saying Swann wasn't good, I just think there's a bit of rose tint looking back.
Blocky
Banned
Swann was amazing for the English because he could do the role required for the conditions required. Shah will be interesting, he's playing in conditions that aren't favorable, but against a team that loses its **** to good spin - be an interesting few weeks.
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
I'm pretty sure if Yasir takes wickets in New Zealand or Australia, it will be attributed to 'NZ/Aussies suck at playing spin'
Blocky
Banned
It'll be more about how he takes the wickets, if it's the usual meek dismissal where the batsman makes an error of concentration, he won't get credit - if it's a case that he's just dominating us and we have no answer, i.e Murali, he'll get credit.