Muttiah Muralidaran's 10 top batsmen

[Jono]

I understand people that don't treat the list as gospel, but these lists have a use. For once, it's definitely interesting to see that Murali thought highly of someone like Crawley. It brings another side/viewpoint of cricket which we don't see too often.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

If Tendu had been absent from that list and Tendu fans had brought him up,they would have been labelled as fanboys and overly-sensitive.But I guess it is ok for others to moan and whine about why their hero aint on the list.

Ponting is not better against spin than anyone from that list...not even close.Martyn,Sehwag,Fleming have MUCH better cases,period.

 

[Uppercut]

That point would be valid if Murali bowled 100% of balls to those batsmen. Collective average against a side says little about how comfortable you were playing a specific bowler.

I think it's pretty reasonable to equate playing against Sri Lanka with playing against Murali though. It might be the only case in cricketing history where to do so would be reasonable, in fact.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Using the Cricinfo stat average against a bowler is the most stupidest and inaccurate method of evaluating a player against a particular bowler.

Sourav Ganguly averages in the high 70s against. Much better than Sidhu and Azhar for example, but Murali would know who played his bowling better. I would much rather rely on Murali's list than use Cricinfo statistics.

It is his list, and he is entitled to make one, and i don't think it is even worth debating this.

Next time Murali,or any bowler for that matter,makes a list like this,he should use statsguru first.

 

[Jarquis]

Whatever dude, I don't give a **** anymore.

The bottom line is lists like the one made by Murali shouldn't be taken as a serious analysis, but rather just as a whimsical selection of players. Given that, debating them is a pointless and (as I've come to learn) an extremely annoying exercise.

Then why the **** have you got sand in your vag about it? Seems like you care more about Ponting's omission than Murali does about making the list.

 

[silentstriker]

I think it's pretty reasonable to equate playing against Sri Lanka with playing against Murali though. It might be the only case in cricketing history where to do so would be reasonable, in fact.

Not necessarily. Scoring more runs in a given innings or even a given set of innings does not imply you playing a particular bowler in the attack 'better', especially in the eyes of the bowler. For example, if player X scored 40 runs against all the bowlers and 10 runs off 90 balls off Murali vs. player Y scored 40 runs off 40 balls off Murali and 1 out of 90 off other bowlers, one did better against Murali even though he didn't do better overall. That is an extreme example and I'm not saying that happened, but you can't make that type of determination from the number of runs scored.

If a player seems more tentative vs. taking the attack to the bowler....it would certainly play a role in a bowlers evaluation even if the former scored slightly more overall. You can debate that all you like, but it totally makes sense. One frustrates you because you think you have the upper hand but can't take a wicket, while the other demoralizes you. Different people value each differently.

 

[Uppercut]

Obviously it doesn't give you a definitive answer, it's not supposed to, there's just a decent enough correlation as to make the analysis worthwhile.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Re: Tendu's average in matches involving Murali,I guess its that 08 series that brings it down by a lot.It is worth noting that Mendis also played in that series,the same Mendis against who Ponting appeared clueless in the few LoI matches they have played each other in.

Also for the number lovers-Tendu has had to play Murali on pitches where Punter averages 20 odd(wait,lets disregard stats not in our favour).

The issue here isn't about Ponting not being on that list,its more to do with Tendu being there(but oh,its Tendu "fanboys" who are sensitive.

 

[silentstriker]

Obviously it doesn't give you a definitive answer, it's not supposed to, there's just a decent enough correlation as to make the analysis worthwhile.

Analysis of what? If the discussion was who scored more runs in SL, yes. If the discussion is who played me better - that's surely an opinion statement that is beyond analysis. Because even if you scored centuries, I may think you were tentative and let off a lot, or I hated bowling to you because you kept on hitting me for sixes and getting me off my rhythm instead of letting me bowl long spells.

Now if someone averaged two runs vs. another player averaged a hundred, that may make sense...otherwise...que sera sera. I mean Warnie's list was stupid too (I thought) but who knows what he felt when playing with or against those players?

 

[Jono]

If Tendu had been absent from that list and Tendu fans had brought him up,they would have been labelled as fanboys and overly-sensitive.But I guess it is ok for others to moan and whine about why their hero aint on the list.

Ponting is not better against spin than anyone from that list...not even close.Martyn,Sehwag,Fleming have MUCH better cases,period.

Re: Tendu's average in matches involving Murali,I guess its that 08 series that brings it down by a lot.It is worth noting that Mendis also played in that series,the same Mendis against who Ponting appeared clueless in the few LoI matches they have played each other in.

Also for the number lovers-Tendu has had to play Murali on pitches where Punter averages 20 odd(wait,lets disregard stats not in our favour).

The issue here isn't about Ponting not being on that list,its more to do with Tendu being there(but oh,its Tendu "fanboys" who are sensitive.

Tbf, it was Murali who got him out in the first test twice in 08. There was another test where Sachin got out to the pace bowlers both times I believe.

I do agree that it is hypocritical because if Sachin was not on the list, and a few posters behaved as such, they would have been called fanboys.

Nonetheless, I think you're going slightly overboard. I think it's fair enough to question why Ponting isn't on the list. It's not fair enough to claim Murali is wrong though. And using statsguru to say Murali is wrong about his own bowling is lolworthy.

 

[Uppercut]

Analysis of what? If the discussion was who scored more runs in SL, yes. If the discussion is who played me better - that's surely an opinion statement that is beyond analysis. Because even if you scored centuries, I may think you were tentative and let off a lot, or I hated bowling to you because you kept on hitting me for sixes and getting me off my rhythm instead of letting me bowl long spells.

Yeah, well there's a definite strong correlation between playing Murali well and scoring lots of runs in Sri Lanka. That's an undeniable fact. So how many runs someone scores in (or against) Sri Lanka tells you a bit about how good they were at playing Murali.

Not as much as Murali can tell you himself, but it's far from a worthless addition to the debate. You're being all scientistish and demanding rigorously obtained perfect information again .

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Getting back to the topic-if Odis are also counted then Afridi might be worth a shout as well.That Asia cup ton was as good an odi knock as any against SL...Ganguly too.

 

[silentstriker]

Yeah, well there's a definite strong correlation between playing Murali well and scoring lots of runs in Sri Lanka. That's an undeniable fact. So how many runs someone scores in (or against) Sri Lanka tells you a bit about how good they were at playing Murali.

Not as much as Murali can tell you himself, but it's far from a worthless addition to the debate. You're being all scientistish and demanding rigorously obtained perfect information again .

Well, of course that correlation exists. But how well did Murali think he was bowling that day? Was he asked to bowl defensively or attackingly? Did the batsman play him defensively or go on the attack?

Example: Ponting has said this about Murali:

Knowing that an off-spinner can turn the ball "the other way", away from the outside edge of my bat, means I can't use my feet against him in the way I would against a normal offie. Thus, if I don't get right to the pitch of the ball, then it might spin away from me and I'm gone. Murali has only got me out stumped once in Test matches -- at the Gabba a couple of years ago -- but that's more a reflection of the way I have to play him, the way he's pinned me to the crease, rather than evidence that I've been able to handle him effectively.

Ponting's record against Murali is undeniably very good. He has figured out a way to keep Murali from taking his wicket, and obviously that's a fantastic achievement in and of itself. However, playing him like that when you're pinned to the crease, etc probably demoralizes him less than hitting him out of the park like what Lara did where you feel like a second class bowler. Or at least Murali feels that way.

This is not a list of people who scored most runs against SL when Murali was in the attack. And while there might be a correlation, it is, at best, a very small footnote. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Jono]

This is not a list of people who scored most runs against SL when Murali was in the attack. And while there might be a correlation, it is, at best, a very small footnote. That's all I'm saying.

That's exactly the point isn't it.

It's not a "who scored the most runs against Murali" list. In fact, it's not a "who played their best against Murali for their team" list either.

It's just a list of who Murali felt played him the best.

Someone who smashed him for 80 and completely demoralised him may result in Murali rating him higher than someone who grinded out a 130, including a few plays and missed, edges past Jaya in the slips etc.

 

[silentstriker]

That's exactly the point isn't it.

Of course it is. That's why I said it. Everything I say is 'exactly the point.'

By the way, is it a good time to buy property in Sydney yet?

 

[Jono]

Go stick your **** in one of your rifles and pull the trigger.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Go stick your **** in one of your rifles and pull the trigger.

Wouldn't touch the sides of the barrel of a .22, tbh.

 

[silentstriker]

Go stick your **** in one of your rifles and pull the trigger.

I don't have any rifles . I was living in an apartment for a while...no point.

I'd like to stick it somewhere else though.

 

[silentstriker]

Wouldn't touch the sides of the barrel of a .22, tbh.

AWTA.

I prefer:

+

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/off-topic/11319-hottest-male.html

Obv.

 

[Shri]

Iz zat eh zigarette lighter?