The Myths & The Truth

[BhupinderSingh]

Actually it does when the bowler is used as a stock bowler as well as the strike bowler and it does affect your body in a big way when you bowl 30 overs in a day in 40 Degrees for 15 years, which was Kapil did. Not to forget that Hadlee played in 86 tests over a period of 17 years, Kapil (and Botham ) did in half the time. So as much respect I have for Hadlee, I believe that his average would have suffered, to what extent, I don't know but it would be different. But would it make him a lesser bowler, Never

Yes only Kapil bowled in that much heat & Pakistani bowlers didn't.

 

[Top_Cat]

IMRANIMRANIMRANIMRANIMRANMALCOVITCHIMRANIMRAN!

We get it.

 

[honestbharani]

Interestingly enough, so does McGrath.

Shoots a hole through "Australian pitches were good for bowling" too, doesn't it?

 

[GotSpin]

Shoots a hole through "Australian pitches were good for bowling" too, doesn't it?

Yeah think it was mentioned in this thread or another that Australia had the worst bowling averages or something

 

[Top_Cat]

Shoots a hole through "Australian pitches were good for bowling" too, doesn't it?

Depends on the deck. Recent history aside, Sydney has always been different to Melbourne which is different to Perth, etc.

Adelaide, on the other hand, will be good for batting even on day 20 of any given match.

 

[GotSpin]

Depends on the deck. Recent history aside, Sydney has always been different to Melbourne which is different to Perth, etc.

Adelaide, on the other hand, will be good for batting even on day 20 of any given match.

Brisbane is always reasonably flat as well

 

[Top_Cat]

Wellll, depends on what you mean by flat. Good for batting and not a lot of sideways movement, yes. But there's enough bounce in it to encourage spinners and pacers and the humidity gives you just enough swing to work with, Warne's and McG's records' there are massive.

Adelaide, on the other hand, is slow and low and we're pretty dry here so even when it's cloudy, there's not a lot of swing around. The last time anyone took a 5-fer on there was, what, AA in '03?

EDIT: haha, strike that, Johnson got 5 there a few months back and Lee took 5 in the Test before that, Hoggard not too long before that. Still, they had to work HARD for them!

(top call, that one)

 

[Furball]

Yeah think it was mentioned in this thread or another that Australia had the worst bowling averages or something

Over the last decade, Australia has been the hardest country for visiting bowlers to visit.

 

[honestbharani]

Wellll, depends on what you mean by flat. Good for batting and not a lot of sideways movement, yes. But there's enough bounce in it to encourage spinners and pacers and the humidity gives you just enough swing to work with, Warne's and McG's records' there are massive.

Adelaide, on the other hand, is slow and low and we're pretty dry here so even when it's cloudy, there's not a lot of swing around. The last time anyone took a 5-fer on there was, what, AA in '03?

yeah.. when assessing pitches people forget how big a role the atmospheric conditions play. A flat track, under certain atmospheric conditions, actually change into a really good bowling track. These kind of changes happen even between sessions.. It is just impossible to judge cricket and/or pitch quality from scorecards.. I mean, it is really impossible and no one can get it right even 50% of the time...

 

[Furball]

Wellll, depends on what you mean by flat. Good for batting and not a lot of sideways movement, yes. But there's enough bounce in it to encourage spinners and pacers and the humidity gives you just enough swing to work with, Warne's and McG's records' there are massive.

Adelaide, on the other hand, is slow and low and we're pretty dry here so even when it's cloudy, there's not a lot of swing around. The last time anyone took a 5-fer on there was, what, AA in '03?

Hoggard took 7 last time we were out there.

 

[honestbharani]

To summarize this thread:


The Myths - What BS says..

The Truth - What everyone else have been saying..

 

[Top_Cat]

Actually, re: Adelaide, someone has taken a 5-fer almost every Test there this decade.

Hmmmm.

 

[Spark]

Actually, re: Adelaide, someone has taken a 5-fer almost every Test there this decade.

Hmmmm.

How many of those someones are named Warne or McGrath though?

 

[Migara]

That's not Sobers' bowling average. That's his average in his peak between 62-68, I believe.

Taking Botham's peak to show his value as an all rounder is "Yes . . yes!", and the same for Sobers is "No . . no!"

 

[Ikki]

Why does an AT XI even need an all rounder though? The WI in the 80s ,d the Aussie team 95-07 didn't have a world class all rounder, and they dominated.

If you've got four all time bowlers, 6 all time batsmen and an all time keeper-batsman, why do you automatically need an all rounder?

If Sobers plays in an AT team as a batsman (and imo he would), it's a bonus to have him roll the arm over.

If Imran bats six or seven in an AT it's a bloody joke. There are 50 better batsmen than him. If he bats at 8 or 9 he's not there to score runs, but for his bowling. He certianly has a better case being there as a bowler than a batsman. Personally I wouldn't have him (cue BPS getting antsy ) but it's arguable.

I agree with you, you don't need an all-rounder. I personally put it just because I feel it gives the side more balance. My points are I wouldn't pick Sobers as an all-rounder, ever. By that, I mean I would not plan to rely on his bowling.

If I had Sobers, the most he'd be is a parttimer. I think the only way you get away with 2 all-rounders, as I have picked, is by having Bradman. I think he covers their deficiency with the bat but it adds to the side having more options with the ball.

 

[Ikki]

Taking Botham's peak to show his value as an all rounder is "Yes . . yes!", and the same for Sobers is "No . . no!"

As is often the case, you miss the point. Botham's overall career averages and SRs are fine. Even if you disregard his peak and look at his overall record, it is still amongst all-time greats. Sobers' bowling is mediocre at best, overall. Only when you start considering his peaks as a fast bowler does he really enter the equation.

 

[BhupinderSingh]

To summarize this thread:


The Myths - What BS says..

The Truth - What everyone else have been saying..

Those are myths & no one has yet given proper answer to that.All what they have managed to is quoting a post of SJS,which is also full of myths of Sobers.If you can't prove some claim,its a myth & thats the case here.Even if those myths are true(which they're not),Sobers deserve no extra praise because it would be his own decision to bowl the opposite style to the conditions.If that he did it so his team can play extra spinner/pacer according to conditions,it means he knew he was not a good enough & that his team needed an extra player.

 

[BhupinderSingh]

As is often the case, you miss the point. Botham's overall career averages and SRs are fine. Even if you disregard his peak and look at his overall record, it is still amongst all-time greats. Sobers' bowling is mediocre at best, overall. Only when you start considering his peaks as a fast bowler does he really enter the equation.

Someone who couldn't do a great job even at his peak doesn't deserve to be called greatest alrounder ever & would hardly get a chance to bowl in World & AllTime XIs.I would be very happy to have him as a batsman in my Alltime XI but allrounder? no way.

 

[Teja.]

Even if you disregard his peak and look at his overall record, it is still amongst all-time greats.

383 wickets @ 28.5 with an SR of 57, though a fine record, is certainly not a dead-set ATG bowling record, for mine. More in line with records as that of Hughes(of Merv) and Dev than with Donald and Marshall. Unless you are referring to his All-round record, of course.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

“As a test cricketer, you are tested in intelligence, in courage and in skill…and Imran passes with flying colours in all three grades” – Ian Chappell

“Imran had that aura on the field which was very aristocratic, and made him a born leader" - Sunil Gavaskar.

"He was one could almost say, the best bowler in the world" - John Snow

"He was one of the greatest that I have ever faced" - Sir Viv Richards.

What's this? Looks like a load of myths handed down by people who played against him.