Round table revisited, Lara the best batsmen of modern era

[Fusion]

I suppose it's wrong to count the same thing against him twice.

 

[Cevno]

These younger lot Like Rohit and Yuvraj really seem to lose their fitness and motivation pretty quickly these days.Just shows how well Tendulkar has done to mantain his motivation,Hunger and Fitness over 20 years of International cricket ,when he has almost achieved everything already.
Yet still when u see him bat with Enthusiasm and Yuvraj strolling out to bat ,you would think that they are at exactly opposite in their careers .Strange Indeed.
Hopefully Yuvraj gets his motivation,Hunger and fitness back For India's future.But he just seems to be happy these days going arround with different girls these days and drive around in sports cars.

This is my post from another thread.

I think this what makes Tendulkar be ahead for me.
He still plays at a level and a hunger which even makes those not even born before his debut to shame .
Lara had his moments of madness where he blew it completely,he also took breaks and left the team for a while. While Tendulkar at the same time kept playing and playing and playing for the country.
And tendulkar had the pressure on him of almost carrying the batting for a considerable period and a weaker team.Not to foget a cricket mad nation(where he was booed in his home ground ) and all the other commercial distractions.

And still he Started before Lara and is continuing beyond him ,in a consistent manner.
He has adapted better to new forms of the game,adopted his batting to injuries and the batting around him.
What took Tendulkar to the top for me was when his physical abilities were at a vein he reinvented his game in such a way that he could still contribute to the team cause.He was not the same Tendulkar but was effective to say the least.His double century in sydney in 04 summed up this.

Then after the slump in form he had ,where he was virtually written off, this renassaince is the cherry on the cake.

 

[Cevno]

This. Sachin averaged close to 60 and Lara averaged about 50 in the 90s when only two others(Waugh and Gooch) averaged above 50. However in the 00s, Ponting averaged close to 60 but 16 other players also averaged 50+.

EDIT:-Criteria, minimum 3000 runs.

What is also interesting is that out of those who averaged 50 odd during 2000-07 only kallis(52) and Sehwag(60) and Tendulkar,off course are still doing so in the last 3+ years where everyone including kallis has had a statistical correction/evening out.

 

[Maximus0723]

This is my post from another thread.

I think this what makes Tendulkar be ahead for me.
He still plays at a level and a hunger which even makes those not even born before his debut to shame .
Lara had his moments of madness where he blew it completely,he also took breaks and left the team for a while. While Tendulkar at the same time kept playing and playing and playing for the country.
And tendulkar had the pressure on him of almost carrying the batting for a considerable period and a weaker team.Not to foget a cricket mad nation(where he was booed in his home ground ) and all the other commercial distractions.

And still he Started before Lara and is continuing beyond him ,in a consistent manner.
He has adapted better to new forms of the game,adopted his batting to injuries and the batting around him.
What took Tendulkar to the top for me was when his physical abilities were at a vein he reinvented his game in such a way that he could still contribute to the team cause.He was not the same Tendulkar but was effective to say the least.His double century in sydney in 04 summed up this.

Then after the slump in form he had ,where he was virtually written off, this renassaince is the cherry on the cake.

Weaker team isn't entirely true.
Overall (batting, bowling, etc.) I would take WI team from 89-00 but after the departure of Ambrose/Walsh/Richardson...India had a better team.

Though, India always had better batting in the career span of Sachin and Lara.

 

[Top_Cat]

Does anyone else feel that Ponting is now becoming more a distant 3rd in this debate? Clearly a great batsman but has become more falliable than Lara and Tendulkar in recent years. And as a Kiwi I've always felt we were closer to his wicket than Lara or Tendulkar's.

Only if he retires tomorrow, I reckon. Lara and Sachin (even Hayden) had a similar down period at similar ages and then both had a late form surge, as have many players who don't have any obvious physical impediment. I've been saying it for a couple of months now but I reckon Ponting has finally worked his way through the rough patch which has lasted him since around '07. Just looking at the way he's batting right now, footwork, timing, balance, etc. I reckon he's due for a big run in the next year or so. England watch out.

 

[Athlai]

Only if he retires tomorrow, I reckon. Lara and Sachin (even Hayden) had a similar down period at similar ages and then both had a late form surge, as have many players who don't have any obvious physical impediment. I've been saying it for a couple of months now but I reckon Ponting has finally worked his way through the rough patch which has lasted him since around '07. Just looking at the way he's batting right now, footwork, timing, balance, etc. I reckon he's due for a big run in the next year or so. England watch out.

Looked like the plan Vettori bowled to him worked perfectly and he was poor over here tbh.

 

[Spark]

Looked like the plan Vettori bowled to him worked perfectly and he was poor over here tbh.

I would point out the majority of his test dismissals had nothing at all to do with the bowling.

 

[mohammad16]

YouTube - Great Brain Lara - Blasting PAKISTAN - ENJOY

Take a look at this video, look at how Lara plays when he is allowed to play freely with no added pressure to save a top order collapse. He is just his natural self, not forcing the issue, totally dominating the bowling and in an absolutely risk free manner.

It is pure genius at work.


The problem with the west indies was that far too often Lara was coming in to hepl west indies recover from a bad start and also had to play with pretty ordinary batsmen that were to follow.

If Lara had a good test opening pair before him who gave decent starts consistently, I feel Lara would have done much better statistically since he would be free to express himself.

Anyways that is how I feel anyways.

 

[bagapath]

I suppose it's wrong to count the same thing against him twice.

 

[vcs]

YouTube - Brain Lara 4,6,6,4,4,4

Lara against spin.

Would love to see some clips of Warne vs. Lara contests, I'm not sure who had the upper hand in that matchup.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

I retract from my comments earlier. However, Lara's batting looks fairly ugly compared to Ponting and Tendulkar. His technique was very loose and dangly and he'd get himself into a very awkward position to play particular shots at times.

I'm suprised so many people say Lara was so graceful in his shot-making, because he was far from it. His batting in essence was Phillip Hughes ugly, but of course Lara could play all the shots. He did know how to dominate an attack when he got going though.

 

[Athlai]

I retract from my comments earlier. However, Lara's batting looks fairly ugly compared to Ponting and Tendulkar. His technique was very loose and dangly and he'd get himself into a very awkward position to play particular shots at times.

I'm suprised so many people say Lara was so graceful in his shot-making, because he was far from it. His batting in essence was Phillip Hughes ugly, but of course Lara could play all the shots. He did know how to dominate an attack when he got going though.

 

[mohammad16]

YouTube - Brain Lara 4,6,6,4,4,4

Lara against spin.

Would love to see some clips of Warne vs. Lara contests, I'm not sure who had the upper hand in that matchup.

Lara had the upper hand on all spin bowlers, Warne and Murali included. In fact hes played Murali better than anyone.

 

[satyam]

Lara had the upper hand on all spin bowlers, Warne and Murali included. In fact hes played Murali better than anyone.

Nobody has played murali better than sehwag.

Sehwag vs Murali.(See the strike rate. And don't come with assertion like he scored of other bowlers and didn't score of murali like you did for shoaib)

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

And lara did not dominate kumble in most part of his career .
It was only due to fear of sehwag that SL did not play mendis against India in India.

And we all know what sehwag did to saqlain mushtaq.

 

[mohammad16]

Nobody has played murali better than sehwag.

Sehwag vs Murali.(See the strike rate. And don't come with assertion like he scored of other bowlers and didn't score of murali like you did for shoaib)

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

And lara did not dominate kumble in most part of his career .
It was only due to fear of sehwag that SL did not play mendis against India in India.

And we all know what sehwag did to saqlain mushtaq.

Yeah awesome

Sehwag mostly dominated Murali when he was struggling for form against all batsmen let alone Sehwag.

Do me a favor, go ask Murali himself who is the most difficult and brilliant batsmen Murali has ever bowled to..

Stats and strike rates do not do justice to Laras ability to play spin above and beyond all other greats of the game. Period.

Lara is the greatest player of spin bowling the world has ever seen, apart from Bradman who I cant speak for.

Lara > Sehwag as a player of spin on all accounts.

Also he demolished Saqlain who has a shadow of himself on his first comeback match after years if I can remember correctly on the flattest of wickets.

Also you are wrong about Mendis, Mendis was figured out by Pakistan of all teams after he ran through India. Mendis was out of form and surely Sehwag played a role in him not playing but definitely was not the front running factor for his dropping.

 

[satyam]

Would love to see some clips of Warne vs. Lara contests, I'm not sure who had the upper hand in that matchup.

Lara scored heavily of warne like sachin. But sachin played warne better than anyone else.

Lara used to score heavily of other Australian bowlers in which Mcgrath played. I am yet to see an ODI or test innings in which Lara scored even 5 fours of Mcgrath.Even in his much vaunted 153* he was dropped by healy of Mcgrath's bowling. Even there he scored much of the scoring against Warne and co.

 

[satyam]

Yeah awesome

Sehwag mostly dominated Murali when he was struggling for form against all batsmen let alone Sehwag.

Do me a favor, go ask Murali himself who is the most difficult and brilliant batsmen Murali has ever bowled to..

Stats and strike rates do not do justice to Laras ability to play spin above and beyond all other greats of the game. Period.

When sehwag bats, all spinners loose their form. He took 21 wickets against India in 2008 tour of SL.

Do me a favour and tell me why sehwag averages 55 against major teams and has strike rate of 83. Even Vinod Kambli of India destroyed warne like nobody.

Nobody plays spinner better than sehwag ,Period.

 

[Cevno]

Weaker team isn't entirely true.
Overall (batting, bowling, etc.) I would take WI team from 89-00 but after the departure of Ambrose/Walsh/Richardson...India had a better team.

Till 2000 West indies was stronger than India.
Even till 2002 ,i would say they had the edge.In 2002 they beat India too.
Lara retires in 2006 ,so Tendulkar played in a weaker team for longer.

Though, India always had better batting in the career span of Sachin and Lara.

I think India had a weaker batting upto 1996 slightly .After that upto 2000 until Dravid,Tendulkar and Laxman settled into the team,they had a equal batting line up.
After that no doubt India's was stronger by a fair distance.

 

[Cevno]

When sehwag bats, all spinners loose their form. He took 21 wickets against India in 2008 tour of SL.

Do me a favour and tell me why sehwag averages 55 against major teams and has strike rate of 83. Even Vinod Kambli of India destroyed warne like nobody.

Nobody plays spinner better than sehwag ,Period.

I think Murali confirmed in a interview that at the beginning of his career ,he feared bowling to Sidhu the most.Navjot singh Sidhu used to treat him like a school boy cricketer charging up to him,and making him look towards Ranatunga for help.Even Ranatunga confirmed it on a pre-show a while back on Zee sports. He said that Murali used to say to him i want both the mid-on and mid-off back anna ,as he would charge me".

Sidhu also dominated Warne in his prime Along with Tendulkar.He again used to hit him to all parts.
It is a pity Sidhu was weak against pace bowling ,but he was magnificient against spinners.

 

[mohammad16]

When sehwag bats, all spinners loose their form. He took 21 wickets against India in 2008 tour of SL.

Do me a favour and tell me why sehwag averages 55 against major teams and has strike rate of 83. Even Vinod Kambli of India destroyed warne like nobody.

Nobody plays spinner better than sehwag ,Period.

What are you on about homeboy? What does Sehwags average against major teams have anything to do with Lara and Sehwag vs spin. What does Kambli have to do with it?

There are enough threads on here to go and praise Sehwag or Indian cricketers etc, I am myself a big fan of Sehwag, but please stick to the discussion.

As for your claim that Sehwag is the best player of spin.... its completely and utterly Absurd, Tendulkar is a better player of spin overall than Sehwag is and Lara is by most accounts if not all a better player of spin bowling than Tendulkar.

I dont even want to get into such a ridiculous argument anyway... Sehwag a better player of spin than Lara... wow