How about the average rating for the career? That will put and end to the discussion.For those who like to compare peaks, this is how the ICC ratings site rated each player's peak as an allrounder:
Botham - 646
Imran - 518
Hadlee - 483
Kapil - 433
Procter - 217 (just for jboss)
Had a look at those WSC games a while ago (I think there are only 6) and his bowling record is actually a little better when you remove them while his batting average is marginally worse when you remove them with a higher SR (IIRC). I dont think it makes too much of a difference to his record - over the course of his career or the period in question (1977 - to his back injury in 1982). 1981 is seriously affected by his terrible record as a captain - think its odd that his most famous series does not qualify on the basis of a statistical qualification, although it becomes a little clearer when you look at it in context, i.e. the captaincy. (Just read on cricinfo about his 118 off 102 in that series with the first 28 runs off 53 balls - it must have been carnage after that!) LT is quite right though - he could have been the greatest without a shadow of a doubt. A pity that some of the attitude of the other great all-rounders of the period, especially Imran's, did not rub off on him. Thats what happens I guess when things come too easy.
Its not just a random 10 year period chosen tbf. Imran career followed a simpel trend based on all that i've read of him:
It's a fair point. I suppose I could nittpick and wonder how far into the 1980's he kept performing at that standard, as that was the question that was originally asked. I genuinely don't know and can't be arsed to look right now.
Well yes 1976 indeed. Just checking back those early figures from 71-76 he hardly played except for PAK two tours to ENG.
Your voting system is flawed.
Why ?
Kapil averaged 60 with the bat at a SR of 108, and 20 with the ball in the 83 WC win. I don't think it gets much better than that.
Agreed. Do you by any chance have Imran's stats in the 1991 WC ? I think captaining the side to world cup wins needs to be considered. It is definitely a monumental feat, something neither Hadlee or Botham could do.
Imran averaged 31 at a SR of 52 with the bat, and 2 wickets at 35 in the 92 WC. I don't think captaining sides to WC wins counts for that much in the big picture (after all, only 7 men have done it so far), but doing so as the captain *** star performer definitely counts.
Ah thanks.
If we are taking Captaincy skills into consideration, then why stop at the WC? I think you look at the overall impact they had as Captains. I think Imran was not only the better Captain from these choices, but his name would be on the short list of greatest Captains ever. I have no qualms about saying that no Captain has ever had a singular impact on his own team like Imran. He’s the only Captain in Pakistan’s history who got highly individualized players to play as a team and get the most out of their natural talent. Not only did he lead Pakistan to a WC win, but he also successfully led Pakistan against the mighty Windies at their peak. Imran’s teams were drawing West Indies when all others were usually getting annihilated. Plus, Imran’s own performances in those battles with WI were outstanding.
I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't arguing that Kapil is a better captain than Imran. I was just wondering if captaining their respective teams to WC wins should be given a significant weightage.
Captaincy is easy when you have a bowling attack at your disposal. Captaincy is damn tough when you're the only bowler of any standing your team has. Imran's performances in the battles with the WI were outstanding. Kapil was equally, if not more outstanding. He was the only one to not suffer a significant fall in performance when in the Lions' own den, where one doesn't have the home umpire advantage *cough*. As for Botham, WAG. Obviously decided it would be worth a chuckle to show up as a specialist fielder against the #1 team.
