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Hawkeye: More fallible than they'd like us to think.

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Interestingly, met a bloke recently who works for the company that provides HotSpot and Snicko for Channel 9, and he operates them during games. Says that Hawkeye is fine when showing where the ball actually has been, but no-one really trusts its predictions.

As I've stated before, my problem with it is how the frame at which the ball is paused andd the prediction is based upon is arbitrary, chosen depending on the man in the van (which is how it operates, btw - one bloke inside a van), and affects the result too much.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
I thought maybe after the point where we know it has been some computer program generates it's destination based on speed, direction, etc.
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
Interestingly, met a bloke recently who works for the company that provides HotSpot and Snicko for Channel 9, and he operates them during games. Says that Hawkeye is fine when showing where the ball actually has been, but no-one really trusts its predictions.
Surely the testing of predictions won't be impossible. You bowl a ball, see where it went and then see how hawkeye did in 'predicting' the final few yards of the ball.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
They did that with a Warne delivery in 05. He'd clean bowled Strauss, hawkeye said it would miss
 

slippyslip

U19 12th Man
Also, the more forward a batsmen is the less accurate hawkeye will be.

Snicko is probably the worst piece of "technology" out there. Just looking at soundwaves and estimating when the ball went past the bat and linking them up. Fun for viewers, hope its never used for anything more than that.
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
Also, the more forward a batsmen is the less accurate hawkeye will be.

Snicko is probably the worst piece of "technology" out there. Just looking at soundwaves and estimating when the ball went past the bat and linking them up. Fun for viewers, hope its never used for anything more than that.
I always thought that the soundwaves were connected in sync to the video footage.
 

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Interestingly, met a bloke recently who works for the company that provides HotSpot and Snicko for Channel 9, and he operates them during games. Says that Hawkeye is fine when showing where the ball actually has been, but no-one really trusts its predictions.

As I've stated before, my problem with it is how the frame at which the ball is paused andd the prediction is based upon is arbitrary, chosen depending on the man in the van (which is how it operates, btw - one bloke inside a van), and affects the result too much.
All I can say is that it's better than what we have. The Man-in-the-Van may miss the point of impact by a split-second but the human eye can misjudge the depth of a ball travelling at 90mph by a heck of a lot more. I won't take much convincing that Hawkeye isn't perfect, because there's nothing in the world that can predict with 100% accuracy what a particle would have done once it's been intercepted. It'll take a lot more to convince me that the human eye can judge it more accurately.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
Hmmm, when they can build a robot that can successfully bat against Warne or Steyn, based on a system of cameras, and a computer program telling it where the ball is going to go, I'll accept that the simulation of an elite humans eye and brain has been developed. Until then, I'd say the best people are better than the technology.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
Also, the more forward a batsmen is the less accurate hawkeye will be.

Snicko is probably the worst piece of "technology" out there. Just looking at soundwaves and estimating when the ball went past the bat and linking them up. Fun for viewers, hope its never used for anything more than that.
Disagree. Snicko can be flawed if they mess up the sync, but the technology of a directional mike is pretty simple, and the reading on an ossiciliscope of a ball hitting bat is markedly different from bat hitting pad or ground or ball hitting pad - or indeed ball hitting nothing.
 

Uppercut

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Hmmm, when they can build a robot that can successfully bat against Warne or Steyn, based on a system of cameras, and a computer program telling it where the ball is going to go, I'll accept that the simulation of an elite humans eye and brain has been developed. Until then, I'd say the best people are better than the technology.
Ah Jesus, Matt. This is probably the worst post by a good poster I've read. "Nobody's built robots that bat yet, therefore human eyes are better than cameras".
 
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Jamee999

Hall of Fame Member
Hmmm, when they can build a robot that can successfully bat against Warne or Steyn, based on a system of cameras, and a computer program telling it where the ball is going to go, I'll accept that the simulation of an elite humans eye and brain has been developed. Until then, I'd say the best people are better than the technology.
Why would you want a robot batsman? Unless you're planning on starting a robot cricket league, it'd be totally useless.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Also, the more forward a batsmen is the less accurate hawkeye will be.

Snicko is probably the worst piece of "technology" out there. Just looking at soundwaves and estimating when the ball went past the bat and linking them up. Fun for viewers, hope its never used for anything more than that.
They now synch together the video footage and audio together by the way. With times down to the millisecond and everything.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
Ah Jesus, Matt. This is probably the worst post by a good poster I've read. "Nobody's built robots that bat yet, therefore human eyes are better than cameras".
Uppercut, I'm completely serious. You're saying that Hawkeye is better than human eyes. I'm saying that if you really have a machine that can calculate wha a ball will do, I look forward to seeing the resultant batting machine.

I'm no expert, but I'd suspect that the hawkeye system probably calculates based on some base line parameters and a couple of variables per delivery. The human brain/eye combo remains massively more advanced and capable.

Essentially what you're arguing is that access to multiple replays and/or slow motion would help you make a better decision, which is a truism tha says nothing about whether Hawkeye in and of itself is more accurate than a person.
 

pup11

International Coach
Uppercut, I'm completely serious. You're saying that Hawkeye is better than human eyes. I'm saying that if you really have a machine that can calculate wha a ball will do, I look forward to seeing the resultant batting machine.

I'm no expert, but I'd suspect that the hawkeye system probably calculates based on some base line parameters and a couple of variables per delivery. The human brain/eye combo remains massively more advanced and capable.

Essentially what you're arguing is that access to multiple replays and/or slow motion would help you make a better decision, which is a truism tha says nothing about whether Hawkeye in and of itself is more accurate than a person.
Yeah, I agree with you on this....

What hawk-eye does is predict the line of the ball after impact, now there is a clear problem with that, in 8/10 instances hawk-eye shows the ball hitting or clipping the stumps, now if one starts going by that, most tests would be over in 2 days or less.

The thing with the lbw law is, its not as clear cut as other modes of dismissal that are there in cricket, an umpire has to predict whether the ball would have hit the stumps and also take into account all the other factors, that are required for an lbw decision to go be given in favor of a batsman or a bowler.

Now I would always trust an umpire to do a better job than hawk-eye when making an lbw decision, I think most good umpires don't rule a batsman lbw, unless they are completely sure that the ball is hitting the stumps.

Not noticing an inside-edge, or the the impact outside off-stump, or the ball pitching outside leg, are some usual errors that umpires make while ruling someone lbw, and this where hawk-eye and hot-spot can help the 3rd umpire as guidelines, but I'm not big on it predicting whether a ball is hitting the stumps or not.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
I kinda agree with Matt, although I like technology being introduced simply because it has no inherent bias.

As much as we may dog our umps, the human brain is advanced and people seem to assume that every calculation made by it is a conscious one. I am sure umps have watched so many balls, know so much about the game, etc, that sub-consciously their brains are wired to give very accurate calls and may take into account variables a machine/program may not.
 

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Uppercut, I'm completely serious. You're saying that Hawkeye is better than human eyes. I'm saying that if you really have a machine that can calculate wha a ball will do, I look forward to seeing the resultant batting machine.

I'm no expert, but I'd suspect that the hawkeye system probably calculates based on some base line parameters and a couple of variables per delivery. The human brain/eye combo remains massively more advanced and capable.

Essentially what you're arguing is that access to multiple replays and/or slow motion would help you make a better decision, which is a truism tha says nothing about whether Hawkeye in and of itself is more accurate than a person.
The building of a robot batsman is a ridiculous and completely irrelevant idea, but apart from that, I do see where you're coming from. I thought you meant that the raw human eye is better than 8 different camera angles and the use of slow motion etc., it seems you meant that the human eye with the use of all technology except the predictive element of hawkeye is better than that prediction.

I'm not entirely convinced, but you might be right. It wouldn't be too hard to test if you wanted to find out, you'd think.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Im all for hawkeye tbh, I'm not convinced that it's 100% accurate all of the time,but I am willing to bet that it gets the majority of decisions right, which is probably as good as any of the umpires on the international circuit.,
 

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