**Official** New Zealand in Australia

[Precambrian]

If great players alone could have won their team' world cups all on their own, then greats from many other teams would have done that.

Show me the examples. And I will show you the bowlers among them.

 

[Redbacks]

Let me clarify this.

1. If the selectors really wanted Ponting to get rest, should he not be rested for the entire 5 matches? Instead of playing 1 match and then being rested?

He was already in Perth

 

[Uppercut]

Let me clarify this.

1. If the selectors really wanted Ponting to get rest, should he not be rested for the entire 5 matches? Instead of playing 1 match and then being rested?

2. SA series is very important. But that is still almost a month from now. And if Ponting wanted some good rest before the series, should it not be scheduled towards the end of this series as opposed to the beginning?

I guess it is debatable whether he should have been rested at all in the first place.

He's played so much cricket over the past few months, come under so much criticism, been a part of so much controversy. The man has a wife and a baby girl. If he wants a break, it's none of your ****ing business to debate whether he should be allowed to rest or not.

 

[duffer]

Yeah, I believe he did. However, could he have led his team to success against Australia- their greatest victory since, well, last time they beat Australia- without that break? I'm not so sure. And make no mistake, Dhoni was a big factor in their success.

A lot of the criticism was of the fact that he chose a test series to do it instead of missing T20s or ODIs, so it came down to personal priority. If that's the case, why the criticism of Ponting?

I haven't criticised Ponting for resting, I think it needs to get done somewhere along the line.

I think my dismay at the Dhoni decision was that he pretty much put the greater form of the game (IMO) on a lower standing by requesting for a rest for that series (granted he's the limited overs captain). It's also different in that he requested the rest while Ponting is being forced to rest.

 

[Prince EWS]

He's played so much cricket over the past few months, come under so much criticism, been a part of so much controversy. The man has a wife and a baby girl. If he wants a break, it's none of your ****ing business to debate whether he should be allowed to rest or not.

He doesn't actually want one though, to be fair.

 

[Athlai]

And it's the Aussie summer.
And the start of a series they are down 1-0.

 

[Precambrian]

Yeah, I believe he did. However, could he have led his team to success against Australia- their greatest victory since, well, last time they beat Australia- without that break? I'm not so sure. And make no mistake, Dhoni was a big factor in their success.

A lot of the criticism was of the fact that he chose a test series to do it instead of missing T20s or ODIs, so it came down to personal priority. If that's the case, why the criticism of Ponting?

IIRC, I never brought in an argument similar to that. All I was saying is that Dhoni had a better argument to be rested for test series at that point of time than in an ODI series. Because Dhoni adds irreplaceable value in tests iff he is captain. He was already captaining the ODI side then and considering that the side was inexperienced as compared to tests, it needed all 3, Dhoni the captain, Dhoni the batsman and Dhoni the keeper.

Yeah, this is a the point.

Take the Dhoni case for example. The Indian selectors left it up to Dhoni to manage his own workload, but instead of taking the Kitply Cup off, he ended up dropping a bombshell by breaking down and missing a Test series. Obviously letting players decide when they need rest and when they don't doesn't always work out.

Personally I don't see the logic in Ponting playing a dead rubber ODI and then resting from a live game a week or so later, but it makes a lot more sense than him suddenly discovering that he's burnt out come the second Test in South Africa.

Please see my reply immediately above to UC. Dhoni timed his decision well imho, as the Champions Trophy was coming up immediately after the SL series, so Dhoni, if he needed a break, was in the test matches where he will be least missed.

 

[Precambrian]

He was already in Perth

Makes no sense whatsover.

 

[pup11]

Yeah, this is a the point.

Take the Dhoni case for example. The Indian selectors left it up to Dhoni to manage his own workload, but instead of taking the Kitply Cup off, he ended up dropping a bombshell by breaking down and missing a Test series. Obviously letting players decide when they need rest and when they don't doesn't always work out.

Personally I don't see the logic in Ponting playing a dead rubber ODI and then resting from a live game a week or so later, but it makes a lot more sense than him suddenly discovering that he's burnt out come the second Test in South Africa.

Yeah him playing in the dead rubber makes no sense that's true, but Ponting has already said that, the best Australia side can't always play and they need to start prioritising games, and its fair enough too, there is no way the best Australian side can be available for all upcoming games.

This is something Australia would have to do, and when the tri-series was there it wasn't much of a problem in rotating players around, but with two bilateral series every year, they would find it very tough.

 

[Uppercut]

He doesn't actually want one though, to be fair.

Yeah, it's a bit of a hypothetical (but relevant) point.

 

[Precambrian]

He's played so much cricket over the past few months, come under so much criticism, been a part of so much controversy. The man has a wife and a baby girl. If he wants a break, it's none of your ****ing business to debate whether he should be allowed to rest or not.

Which again comes back to same old argument. Why not appoint a new captain for this ODI series and rest him altogether then?

 

[Prince EWS]

IIRC, I never brought in an argument similar to that. All I was saying is that Dhoni had a better argument to be rested for test series at that point of time than in an ODI series. Because Dhoni adds irreplaceable value in tests iff he is captain. He was already captaining the ODI side then and considering that the side was inexperienced as compared to tests, it needed all 3, Dhoni the captain, Dhoni the batsman and Dhoni the keeper.



Please see my reply immediately above to UC. Dhoni timed his decision well imho, as the Champions Trophy was coming up immediately after the SL series, so Dhoni, if he needed a break, was in the test matches where he will be least missed.

I completely disagree with anyone resting from a Test series to allow them to play an ODI series under any circumstances.. Nothing's really going to change my mind on that.

 

[Precambrian]

I haven't criticised Ponting for resting, I think it needs to get done somewhere along the line.

I think my dismay at the Dhoni decision was that he pretty much put the greater form of the game (IMO) on a lower standing by requesting for a rest for that series (granted he's the limited overs captain). It's also different in that he requested the rest while Ponting is being forced to rest.

Dhoni played unlimited cricket since the World Cup 2007, without missing a single series, and managed to tour almost every country and 2 associate countries in a year. If that is not workload I dont know what is.

 

[Uppercut]

IIRC, I never brought in an argument similar to that. All I was saying is that Dhoni had a better argument to be rested for test series at that point of time than in an ODI series. Because Dhoni adds irreplaceable value in tests iff he is captain. He was already captaining the ODI side then and considering that the side was inexperienced as compared to tests, it needed all 3, Dhoni the captain, Dhoni the batsman and Dhoni the keeper.



Please see my reply immediately above to UC. Dhoni timed his decision well imho, as the Champions Trophy was coming up immediately after the SL series, so Dhoni, if he needed a break, was in the test matches where he will be least missed.

Yeah maybe, but even then you're only debating which competitions and series he should have prioritised. The fact is that cricketers sometimes need a rest, and i don't think an ODI series against New Zealand is the worst possible time to take it.

 

[honestbharani]

I don't really get what the fuss is about, tbh...



Perhaps the CA guys just think they can beat NZ without Ponting but not SA, in ODIs..


It may be wrong thinking but apart from maybe thinking they are over-rating their own team, I don't really see why there is so much need to criticize.. Like it or not, players will want to play and honour their IPL contracts as it is what brings them the big money and so they have to be rested during internationals somehow or the other. It is going to happen with players of every country, esp. India... I don't think it is right but it is what is going to happen. Seems odd to single out Ponting and CA for this....

 

[Athlai]

Yeah maybe, but even then you're only debating which competitions and series he should have prioritised. The fact is that cricketers sometimes need a rest, and i don't think an ODI series against New Zealand is the worst possible time to take it.

Yep the CH series means nothing... just a series which historically is one of the most evenly balanced affairs in cricketing history...

 

[vic_orthdox]

Yep the CH series means nothing... just a series which historically is one of the most evenly balanced affairs in cricketing history...

So is the backyard cricket I partake in against my cousin.

Without wanting to destroy trade relations, this ODI series isn't as important as the matches that follow over the next 8 months. That's due to the timing, and the fact that the Tests are already out of the way. If this were a five game series heading into a Test series, I'd imagine it would be viewed differently (psychological advantage, etc.)

Also, the fact that they get the chance to win it back next year means that, IMO, the trophy isn't as highly valued as what it could/should be.

 

[pup11]

Show me the examples. And I will show you the bowlers among them.

Akram (except 92 wc), Younis, Ambrose, Walsh, Pollock, Donald, have all been great bowlers, but they failed to carry their teams to wc glory, to win a wc almost every member of the squad has to fire at some point of time or the main players have to extraordinary, but still one or two guys can't win you a world cup.

 

[duffer]

I don't really get what the fuss is about, tbh...



Perhaps the CA guys just think they can beat NZ without Ponting but not SA, in ODIs..


It may be wrong thinking but apart from maybe thinking they are over-rating their own team, I don't really see why there is so much need to criticize.. Like it or not, players will want to play and honour their IPL contracts as it is what brings them the big money and so they have to be rested during internationals somehow or the other. It is going to happen with players of every country, esp. India... I don't think it is right but it is what is going to happen. Seems odd to single out Ponting and CA for this....

I don't see it as arrogance at all. They know they need Ponting for the ridiculous schedule they have this year and don't want him breaking down in South Africa or during the Ashes, due to wear and tear.

I know NZ are a traditional rival but this is probably the best time to get the rest in.

 

[Athlai]

So is the backyard cricket I partake in against my cousin.

Without wanting to destroy trade relations, this ODI series isn't as important as the matches that follow over the next 8 months.

All exports to Australia have been halted.