Trouble in the English camp : Pietersen Vs Moores!?

[Richard]

Very interesting! Perhaps against this background Penisen may feel more inclined to compromise with Moores than he did a couple of days ago. Interesting little saga, this.

I'm growing to think that the suggested possibility - both Pietersen and Moores to depart - may be the preferable one.

Can only see some sort of compromise being a short-term papering-over of the cracks, with things being bundled into a timebomb to go off at an unannounced date - maybe just before the Third Test of the 2009 Ashes, with the series intreguingly poised at one-all.

Don't like this idea of Ashley Giles being England head-honcho with Allan Donald also involved though. Not at all. Donald has already had a position and clearly found it wasn't to his liking, and Giles has barely been out of the game as a player 5 minutes.

Hope we may see an experienced coach and Andrew Strauss given the Test captaincy (hang the ODI one for the moment) for West Indies. Think that'd be the best possible outcome.

Just wish it was realistic to expect to see Duncan Fletcher back.

 

[Woodster]

This whole saga is veering towards a quite ugly ending, which if we are to believe the latest take on it, could result in both Moores and KP losing their respective roles. I don't like the fact that this has broken into the public eye and has not been kept within the confines of the training ground. There is clearly trouble between the two and while it is acceptable for captain and coach to work together despite personality differences, if the two are some way apart on their outlook on cricket, which I presume is the case, then this is simply unworkable. I expect Moores to depart, but KP to remain. Despite the recent article don't think the ECB would upset such a high profile match-winning player such as KP.

 

[zaremba]

WTR Ashley Giles, he has only recently retired but may not be a terrible choice. A fellow-poster on the Sussex messageboard, who is a Warwickshire supporter and whose inside knowledge I respect, has this to say about him:

He's very ambitious and very tough which they may need in the short term. He stands no nonsense and makes the hard decisions for example:

MPV is a close friend - but he wasnt picked for the WI

Ambrose is his keeper but has been dropped

Keith Piper,who was his keeper all his career, has been let go

Michael Powell, a very close friend, was released

Darren Maddy was replaced as captain

He didnt let Dougie Brown have a farewell game etc..

Some tough choices there.

 

[Woodster]

Indications may be good for Gilo for the future, however, I think a little more experience is required for a job of this magnitude. Names of such coaches I am yet to produce.

 

[ozone]

I'm growing to think that the suggested possibility - both Pietersen and Moores to depart - may be the preferable one.

Have to say, this is sort of what I'm thinking. Honestly can't see Moores staying on, even without the captaincy, Pietersen is the star player and for him to contradict the coach in such a huge way is going to completely undermine his position. And yet, if rumours are to be believed, Pietersen has little support from those in charge, was never the best captain in the side and so may be walking on thin ice himself. Can't help agreeing that this may be the best thing for the side in the long run.

 

[BoyBrumby]

The more I think about it, the less happy I am with the possibility of Pietersen having his coach sacked. You can be sure that if he tried this in Aus, he'd be invited to **** right off and do the job he's actually paid to do, and quite rightly too. Especially if it's largely about Vaughan's non-selection, which at best could be described as marginal.

Reminds me a bit of Boycott's mid70's sulk when he disagreed with the appointment of Denness as England captain. Then, of course, we lost our best batsman for three years, but there you go. If KP were to stand down as captain, would it really matter?

In the strictest sense, no. I suppose the big worry is that he might pull a Boycott and take his batting with him away from the test team in a fit of pique at the perceived slight.

 

[zaremba]

In the strictest sense, no. I suppose the big worry is that he might pull a Boycott and take his batting with him away from the test team in a fit of pique at the perceived slight.

This is the point. Or that he does so in spirit (ie by losing motivation and his performances dropping), or retiring disillusioned early, or by causing further rifts etc etc etc

 

[Evermind]

my nominations for england coach:

Giles (knows the players)
Ranatunge (Out of a job ATM and has won a world cup)
Ganguly (One of the greatest cricketing brains of all time)
Warne and Terry Jenner (Why can't it be a duo?)
Greg Chappell(Indian and Australian stints were blimps in an otherwise great coaching career)

Giles - completely pointless. Has no experience at the highest level.
Ranatunge - Poor language skills. Let's face it - are they really going to appoint an asian coach?
Ganguly - One of the greatest cricketing brains of all time: say what? A massive ego, but not much cricketing brain. No way.
Warne and Terry Jenner - Ego.
Greg Chappell - The only remotely viable option on the list.

 

[zaremba]

Giles - completely pointless. Has no experience at the highest level.
Ranatunge - Poor language skills. Let's face it - are they really going to appoint an asian coach?
Ganguly - One of the greatest cricketing brains of all time: say what? A massive ego, but not much cricketing brain. No way.
Warne and Terry Jenner - Ego.
Greg Chappell - The only remotely viable option on the list.

I doubt an Australian would be picked to be honest. Tom Moody would be more palatable than most because his image in England is as a county stalwart / county coach rather than Test match bully who's beaten us up time and again.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Think Moody's missus is English too, isn't she? So he's practically a pom anyway.

 

[zaremba]

Think Moody's missus is English too, isn't she? So he's practically a pom anyway.

Not sure it always works that way. (Jane McGrath RIP).

 

[GIMH]

Well maybe - but the broad point about a hardening of attitudes may well be accurate and is certainly of interest - it's difficult to know how reliable it is, of course, when at this stage no-one is prepared to give attributable quotes.

This in particular:

Research conducted by the ECB in the last few days suggests that Pietersen does not have the steadfast support of his team-mates or the back-room staff. The majority of the England support staff are understood to be supportive of Moores while most of the players are underwhelmed by Pietersen's dramatic intervention, as Steve Harmison demonstrated with his ambivalent comments on Tuesday.

My God, just reading this stuff just underlines how divisive and destructive Pieterson's clumsy approach has been.

So, KP, you've got a lousy record as captain, you've split the dressing room, you've pissed off your board, you've alienated your backroom staff, you've allowed your relationship with the coach to break down, and you've admitted that you don't have the tactical ability to captain the team. So., remind us, why exactly are you England captain?

I know he lost five one-dayers in India - but he won four in England against the Saffies. And his Test record reads 1-1-1. Hardly lousy?

Anyway. It was a great chance to win the Ashes this year. Way to **** it up, the lot of you.

Make Flintoff the only player, coach, manager, whatever. **** the rest of the prima donnas. ****ing joke.

 

[Evermind]

Make Flintoff the only player, coach, manager, whatever. **** the rest of the prima donnas. ****ing joke.

pedalo

 

[GIMH]

 

[zaremba]

I know he lost five one-dayers in India - but he won four in England against the Saffies. And his Test record reads 1-1-1. Hardly lousy?

Anyway. It was a great chance to win the Ashes this year. Way to **** it up, the lot of you.

Make Flintoff the only player, coach, manager, whatever. **** the rest of the prima donnas. ****ing joke.

GIMH you've been at the anti-freeze again haven't you?

 

[Richard]

Just the Guinness, methinks.

 

[Richard]

Giles - completely pointless. Has no experience at the highest level.
Ranatunge - Poor language skills. Let's face it - are they really going to appoint an asian coach?
Ganguly - One of the greatest cricketing brains of all time: say what? A massive ego, but not much cricketing brain. No way.
Warne and Terry Jenner - Ego.
Greg Chappell - The only remotely viable option on the list.

I doubt an Australian would be picked to be honest. Tom Moody would be more palatable than most because his image in England is as a county stalwart / county coach rather than Test match bully who's beaten us up time and again.

I doubt anyone should take this DingDong character's posts with any seriousness. Just read a few of them to see why.

 

[GIMH]

Guinness, Bacardi, whisky, who gives a ****ing ****, meh

 

[Richard]

Well done on not (so far) inadvertently avoiding the filter, Mithcell-style. And don't forget, the cricket starts in 10 minutes.

 

[Bob Bamber]

I've long believed that the Test and ODI game-forms are sufficiently different to render form in one irrelevant to form in the other.

As one example, take Nick Knight in 2002. All season, he never stopped scoring in the First-Class game. Yet in the one-dayers, after a 125* in the opening game, he could barely get a run - including throughout that summer's NatWest Series ODIs.

I don't think Collingwood was out-of-form in the First-Class game, nor Shah in-form. Because, because of the deeply unfortunate Mumbai attacks, there wasn't any. Hence, the most recent Test cricket was the only yardstick available to go by.

Normally, I'd agree. But the last test in England was at the end of August (that in itself was a dead rubber). 3 months is enough time to loose any form you have. Saying all of this, Ian Bell didn't look in much better shape either.

This whole saga is veering towards a quite ugly ending, which if we are to believe the latest take on it, could result in both Moores and KP losing their respective roles. I don't like the fact that this has broken into the public eye and has not been kept within the confines of the training ground.

I think that may be the ultimate nail in the coffin. The fact that this went public shows ultimately that there's a real problem, and something has to give. I didn't see it being the pair of them, but I guess that could be the ultimate result.

As for the West Indies series, I think that the easiest thing is to give Strauss the captaincy, and make Giles stand-in coach. Its a temporary solution, but being so close to the fly-out date there isn't really any other choice. Being so close to the Ashes is the worst time possible, but its the cards we've been dealt.