Zimbabwe's Future?

[Richard]

3, the fact that Zimbabwe's cricket team (as a direct result of political misrule) is so far below the requirements for international cricket that it's untrue. Cricket may be less of a wreck than most in the country, but it's still been almost completely destroyed.

4, Zimbabwe is a wretched country. No international sport, of any kind, should be played there. No international company should trade there and offer assets to those in power. No ties of any sort from anywhere should be made with the place. Zimbabwe should simply be cut off - unless, of course, you're deciding to take direct action and actually invade the damn place, which would be rather a delicate proposition TSTL for a large number of reasons.

 

[LA ICE-E]

All the people that are saying Zimbabwe should be banned because it's the right thing to do- bull**** not a good enough reason. ICC isn't there to be a moral leader for the world, it's there for cricket. But all the people saying they shouldn't be banned is wrong to. Point is they should be banned because of political reasons because politics is everywhere and if you start banning countries because of its politics than you could find a reason to ban almost all countries. But Zimbabwe should be banned because it simply can not fill requirements of it's cricketing needs need to be a test nation.

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci-icc/content/current/story/359240.html

 

[Son Of Coco]

All the people that are saying Zimbabwe should be banned because it's the right thing to do- bull**** not a good enough reason. ICC isn't there to be a moral leader for the world, it's there for cricket. But all the people saying they shouldn't be banned is wrong to. Point is they should be banned because of political reasons because politics is everywhere and if you start banning countries because of its politics than you could find a reason to ban almost all countries. But Zimbabwe should be banned because it simply can not fill requirements of it's cricketing needs need to be a test nation.

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci-icc/content/current/story/359240.html

I think you'd have a set of guidelines though wouldn't you!? For example, you probably wouldn't ban a country because its citizens are upset about the rising cost of living. If a leader is killing his citizens on the other hand you might sit down and have a little think about it. There's a massive, massive difference between politics and what's happening in Zimababwe. The easiest way to wash your hands of the problem and ignore it is by taking an attitude similar to the one you've presented. The ICC is there for cricket, other governments are there for their own countries, it's every man for himself.

I'd support Zimbabwe being banned until something's done about Mugabe.

 

[social]

Enough evidence? All i found was an extremely vague article circling around some audit conducted by a big four firm and an occasional para concocting up wonderful theories like that the IPL won't survive without a compromise with ICL! The author himself says the contents of the audit report are not disclosed.

There is a whole lot of people out there who really want to play cricket in Zimbabwe, and ICC should support them in this hour, and not listen to bigoted governmental bastards and their opportunism.

It's cricket's true charm that the game has remained apolitical, in fact, it has only served as a balm to easing political tension (India Pak series). Crowds of Mumbai cheered loud for Sohail Tanveer in the IPL finals. None thought about his nation of birth's conflict-ridden history with nation-of-employment. When you keep cricket and politics seperate, it adds to the wholesomeness, esp when the political stuff is muddy or plain garbage. Cricket is way too precious to be lost in that merger.

You obviously slept through SA's banning from international cricket

As for "There is a whole lot of people out there who really want to play cricket in Zimbabwe", tbh I think they would be more interested in being amongst the very few in that country that can feed themselves

 

[Precambrian]

3, the fact that Zimbabwe's cricket team (as a direct result of political misrule) is so far below the requirements for international cricket that it's untrue. Cricket may be less of a wreck than most in the country, but it's still been almost completely destroyed.

4, Zimbabwe is a wretched country. No international sport, of any kind, should be played there. No international company should trade there and offer assets to those in power. No ties of any sort from anywhere should be made with the place. Zimbabwe should simply be cut off - unless, of course, you're deciding to take direct action and actually invade the damn place, which would be rather a delicate proposition TSTL for a large number of reasons.

I surely hope you're not being serious on the above points. Esp the second point. They are plain reading like the writings of a megalooniac. Invade a country just because you perceive it as corrupt? Oh yeah. was'nt the same thing that happened in Iraq? Now did the situation anyway get better there due to the invasion? Who gave the license to invade other countries which are sovereign?

As for Goughy's comments on misappropriation of funds by Zimbabwe cricket officials, nothing has been proven so far conclusive against any official.

 

[Precambrian]

You obviously slept through SA's banning from international cricket

As for "There is a whole lot of people out there who really want to play cricket in Zimbabwe", tbh I think they would be more interested in being amongst the very few in that country that can feed themselves

SA ban was for entirely different reasons. The apartheid followed by the white administration was discriminating and literally cutting off the black population from inter alia, cricket. Is there proof that Mugabe for whatever lousy bastard he is, is indulging in activities of such scale? And that too affecting cricket directly? His misrule might have resulted in an economic turmoil, but cricket should not be made to suffer for that.

 

[social]

As for Goughy's comments on misappropriation of funds by Zimbabwe cricket officials, nothing has been proven so far conclusive against any official.

Financial irregularities have been discovered (e.g. huge credit card payments with no receipts because they were "stolen" ) and guess who controls the administrationof the ZCC?

Pretty simple solution - suspend the ZCC until they get there house in order.

 

[social]

SA ban was for entirely different reasons. The apartheid followed by the white administration was discriminating and literally cutting off the black population from inter alia, cricket. Is there proof that Mugabe for whatever lousy bastard he is, is indulging in activities of such scale? And that too affecting cricket directly? His misrule might have resulted in an economic turmoil, but cricket should not be made to suffer for that.

So there's no discrimination in Zimbabwe?

That statement would be funny if it weren't so delusional.

The thing about Mugabe is that he discriminates against EVERYONE

 

[Precambrian]

I think you'd have a set of guidelines though wouldn't you!? For example, you probably wouldn't ban a country because its citizens are upset about the rising cost of living. If a leader is killing his citizens on the other hand you might sit down and have a little think about it. There's a massive, massive difference between politics and what's happening in Zimababwe. The easiest way to wash your hands of the problem and ignore it is by taking an attitude similar to the one you've presented. The ICC is there for cricket, other governments are there for their own countries, it's every man for himself.

I'd support Zimbabwe being banned until something's done about Mugabe.

Simplistic point of view. If that's the case, then Pakistan should be the first nation to be banned, as the military dictator there, if the words of the opposition are to be believed, engineered the assassination of a prominent woman leader some months back. And the killings in the NW province.

Or Sri Lanka? Every day we read about how the army brags about having Killed 40 tamil tigers, 30 tigers, etc. Aren't the tamils also citizens of Sri Lanka? Why none is so interested in that case then?

Simple. Mugabe is easy and soft a target. Plain colonial opportunism and bigotry at work.

No point in cursing and whining about the BCCI. They run the show, and they are running it well. With the IPL, they've made cricket even more professional and apolitical. They might be a bunch of greedy bastards, but as long as they do something to grow and develop the game, I'll go for them than the inert bastards who just talk in conference rooms.

 

[Precambrian]

So there's no discrimination in Zimbabwe?

That statement would be funny if it weren't so delusional.

The thing about Mugabe is that he discriminates against EVERYONE

Am asking again, how's Mugabe's policies affecting ICC or cricket directly?

 

[Goughy]

As for Goughy's comments on misappropriation of funds by Zimbabwe cricket officials, nothing has been proven so far conclusive against any official.

Lets assume for one second you are an expert on the topic and have read everything available on the issue (there is mountains) what makes you say there is no evidence.

Do we define evidence differently? It is something that everyone watches happening and does happen. As Kate Hoey (former British Sports Minister said)

As an honorary vice-president of Surrey County Cricket Club, an issue that is close to my heart is the Zimbabwe Cricket Union. Mugabe is a ZCU patron, and its chairman, Peter Chingoka, and managing director, Ozias Bvute, are both deeply implicated in the financial corruption that props up the regime. Through cricket, they have access to hard currency, which they misuse to exercise corrupt patronage in collaboration with the bigwigs of Zimbabwe’s ruling party. At international matches Chingoka uses the VIP pavilion to host the ZANU-PF politicians, CIO operatives and senior army officers on whom he relies for protection.

If you dont think there is evidence the you are not looking as its not even hidden. Its clear and obvious.

And how has this impacted the players? This gives a clue
http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/353600.html

 

[social]

Simple. Mugabe is easy and soft a target. Plain colonial opportunism and bigotry at work.

QUOTE]

Clueless

If it was simple bigotry why would a BLACK Zimbabwean cricketer like Henry Olonga put his life at risk by standing up against Zimbabwe's Government

And if it was simple colonialism, why would a BLACK South African "Man of God" like Desmond Tutu called for international intervention

There are times when it not simply black vs white and we're not all George Bush

 

[Son Of Coco]

Simplistic point of view. If that's the case, then Pakistan should be the first nation to be banned, as the military dictator there, if the words of the opposition are to be believed, engineered the assassination of a prominent woman leader some months back. And the killings in the NW province.

Or Sri Lanka? Every day we read about how the army brags about having Killed 40 tamil tigers, 30 tigers, etc. Aren't the tamils also citizens of Sri Lanka? Why none is so interested in that case then?

Simple. Mugabe is easy and soft a target. Plain colonial opportunism and bigotry at work.

No point in cursing and whining about the BCCI. They run the show, and they are running it well. With the IPL, they've made cricket even more professional and apolitical. They might be a bunch of greedy bastards, but as long as they do something to grow and develop the game, I'll go for them than the inert bastards who just talk in conference rooms.

Yeah, you're right. You've talked me around. I need to have a good hard look at myself. Mugabe's done nothing to warrant these attacks on his character. I don't fully understand the Pakistan case with Bhutto...wasn't she the leader of the country? Are the Tamils in SL a group that have been engaged in action against the SL government? Aren't they considered to be a terrorist organisation by a number of countries?

I may be the simple one, but your comparison of these countries (edit) to someone who has maintained control of his country by force, intimidation of his rivals, and the beating and killing of people who oppose him is only slightly short of being absolutely ridiculous.

 

[social]

Am asking again, how's Mugabe's policies affecting ICC or cricket directly?

For example, when Henry Olonga and Andy Flower used the WC as a platform to display their displeasure at Mugabe's rule, they were charged with treason, the penalty for which is
death.

Naturally, both were forced to flee the country with Olonga having to spend time in hiding because, as a black man, his crime was considered worse

Their "crime" was to release the following statement

In all the circumstances, we have decided that we will each wear a black armband for the duration of the World Cup. In doing so we are mourning the death of democracy in our beloved Zimbabwe. In doing so we are making a silent plea to those responsible to stop the abuse of human rights in Zimbabwe. In doing so, we pray that our small action may help to restore sanity and dignity to our Nation.

Mugabe discriminates against anyone that doesnt support him. If that person is a cricketer, then, at best, he wont be selected for Zimbabwe.

 

[Precambrian]

Lets assume for one second you are an expert on the topic and have read everything available on the issue (there is mountains) what makes you say there is no evidence.

Do we define evidence differently? It is something that everyone watches happening and does happen. As Kate Hoey (former British Sports Minister said)


If you dont think there is evidence the you are not looking as its not even hidden. Its clear and obvious.

And how has this impacted the players? This gives a clue
http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/353600.html

Exactly, the problem here is that those words are coming out of the mouth of an Englishman. That is not exactly evidence, but allegation. That's precisely why ICC has to put in a neutral investigation committee and see if really the ICC funds are misappropriated. If yes, then a ban should ensue.

 

[Goughy]

Exactly, the problem here is that those words are coming out of the mouth of an Englishman. That is not exactly evidence, but allegation. That's precisely why ICC has to put in a neutral investigation committee and see if really the ICC funds are misappropriated. If yes, then a ban should ensue.

a) Its a woman and b) what the **** is that supposed to mean? Id put the neutrality of British cabinet minister on this topic over an ICC committee.

Im not a Labour Party supporter, but Britain should be proud how it has handled this issue and been outspoken. Neutral and fair compared to the political sham many others in the international community have acted in.

Its ridiculous. You want a piece of paper from an ICC committee to prove what everyone has seen, witnessed and written about for years. Id suggest you open your eyes. The declaration of an ICC committee, one way or the other, doesnt make any difference.

If a woman never takes a test does that mean she isnt pregnant until she gives birth? At this stage, ZCU is like an 8 month pregnant woman. We know whats going on, taking a pregnancy test now is pointless and those advocating it are either a) mindless bureaucrats or b) looking to manipulate the truth

 

[Precambrian]

For example, when Henry Olonga and Andy Flower used the WC as a platform to display their displeasure at Mugabe's rule, they were charged with treason, the penalty for which is
death.

Naturally, both were forced to flee the country with Olonga having to spend time in hiding because, as a black man, his crime was considered worse

Their "crime" was to release the following statement

In all the circumstances, we have decided that we will each wear a black armband for the duration of the World Cup. In doing so we are mourning the death of democracy in our beloved Zimbabwe. In doing so we are making a silent plea to those responsible to stop the abuse of human rights in Zimbabwe. In doing so, we pray that our small action may help to restore sanity and dignity to our Nation.

Mugabe discriminates against anyone that doesnt support him. If that person is a cricketer, then, at best, he wont be selected for Zimbabwe.

It was Olonga and Flower who tried to bring politics into world cup. And they had to pay the price for it. Sorry but the ICC World Cup is not the place to show your political viewpoints. Jus play the damn game and get off.

 

[Goughy]

It was Olonga and Flower who tried to bring politics into world cup. And they had to pay the price for it. Sorry but the ICC World Cup is not the place to show your political viewpoints. Jus play the damn game and get off.

The strange thing is that Im inclined to agree with the core of that statement. Sport should be about sport and there are other avenues protesters should pursue. Ive also mentioned in the past a number of none too complimentary things about Olonga and Flower that came from the Zim camp.

However you lost me, and worried and scared me, that you suggest such a thing could reasonably be punished by death.

 

[Burgey]

Am asking again, how's Mugabe's policies affecting ICC or cricket directly?

If that's the case. how did apartheid affect cricket or the ICC equivalent of the day?

 

[LA ICE-E]

Why the **** are you guys arguing over this. Why does the ICC have to do something? Why the hell are the governments of the countries doing any thing? Stop trade, start economic santons etc. Don't get me wrong I'm against the dictator but it's not the ICC job to fix it.

I think you'd have a set of guidelines though wouldn't you!? For example, you probably wouldn't ban a country because its citizens are upset about the rising cost of living. If a leader is killing his citizens on the other hand you might sit down and have a little think about it. There's a massive, massive difference between politics and what's happening in Zimababwe. The easiest way to wash your hands of the problem and ignore it is by taking an attitude similar to the one you've presented. The ICC is there for cricket, other governments are there for their own countries, it's every man for himself.

I'd support Zimbabwe being banned until something's done about Mugabe.

Other governments are for their own countries but those other governmets deal with ZImbabwe and trade with them etc and if it is the will of their own countries' people because of moral issues than they should act upon that. But It's not for the the ICC to deal with moral issues because in the end, morals are different for each and every person.

Again here's an example, in your morality it's ok or not as big of a deal if injustice is happening to 1 or small group of people while it is a big deal if it's happening to a lot of people. But for me, it's wrong no matter how many people the injustice is happening to and I'd stand up for each one of them not just stand up for 1 group and let the others die just because they are a smaller, less powerful group. So if sports are going to act up morals then we will end up in a whole lot of mess that doesn't really have to do with sports. Let organizations for moral issues and dedicated against this kind of things, governments etc deal with these not sports organizations.

So the guide lines for sports organizaitons should be only get invovled when it's effecting the sport and right now in Zimbabwe it is which is why they can not have a test level team or home support for the team etc which means they dont meet the criteria of being a full member and so they should be suspended.