Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
We've now finished a winter's work which plenty of people can claim has held lots of positives. I remain fairly convinced that our ODI team is the worst of the 8 serious forces, as it has been fairly comfortably for the last 7 years. I cast my eye over the players I'd say would be "current":
James Anderson - never been much of a ODI bowler for mine, his figures have flattered him more than a few times, but even despite this his economy-rate against ODI-standard teams is at the culmination of this winter over 5-an-over, and the average over 30. I don't know how much longer we're going to be able to pretend.
Ian Bell - still completely remain to be convinced of his worth in the shorter game, though he's obviously better than many batsmen we've tried of late.
Ian Blackwell - bit of a stretch, given he last played in the winter of 2005\06, but with 29 ODIs against ODI-standard teams behind him and a reasonable economy-rate of 4.32-an-over (average 37.13) it remains a mystery that MSP was ever selected ahead of him, though Graeme Swann is clearly the superior bowler. I still don't think his chances of returning to the fray are completely gone, though I've never thought a hell of a lot of him either.
Ravinder Bopara - still all he's done in his career to date is play those two breathtakingly calm innings against Sri Lanka (in what was essentially his first ODI innings) and India at Old Trafford. Now, perhaps it'd be a bit harsh to judge him with any great conviction. These two innings aside, he's had 14 others against ODI-standard sides. In 8 of these I think you could accurately sum-up that he had roughly zero opportunity to make a significant impact - either the game was already effectively decided when he walked to the crease or he was coming in with a handful of overs left in the first-innings. Yet in the other 6 he's been roundly disappointing, not showing a trace of the required traits to play the role he's been given. So really, there's no point in him batting at seven, ever again. If he is to be recalled, it has to be in the top-order, and given that Bell, Pietersen and Collingwood appear ensconced there there doesn't appear any immediate prospect of that.
Stuart Broad - a fairly decent winter's work for the Leics\Notts seamer: though his economy-rate (5-an-over) remained poor, his average (22) was excellent. There's perhaps just 4 games out of 10 that you could actually say he bowled terribly well in, and undoubtedly he benefited from friendly surfaces. I remain to be convinced, but he's certainly done better this winter than he'd ever done before (after his first 16 games his record read 5.15-an-over at 36.68).
Paul Collingwood - averaged 29.50 this winter, fairly typically nondescript.
Alastair Cook - pretty much the same now as it was at the start of last summer: promise, but still much to be done if he's to become a ODI opener out of the top (and increasingly unopened type of) drawer. Had 19 innings since becoming a first-choice now, and has played several fine innings, but has also fallen cheaply too often, as well as too often wasting too many deliveries then getting out. I still want him at the top of the order, as I don't see anyone else doing a better job, but as I say - much to be done if he's to become an integral part of a powerful England ODI side.
Jamie Dalrymple - not sure we'll ever see him again, and was poorly used later on in his career, batting (not unlike Bopara) in a position he was completely dissuited to. But like Bopara, he doesn't really immediately strike as having many of the tools to succeed in ODIs. And also like Bopara, seems some people think more of his bowling than they should.
Andrew Flintoff - the only remaining current player to have played in the 1990s (and even then, he damn well should not have done), it appears more and more unlikely with every new setback that Flintoff will ever be a true force again. A shame, as he's a good head above all England's other ODI bowlers and, while never a batsman of any remarkable class, certainly good for runs far more often than most bowlers. Let's hope we see him again, and soon.
Edmund Joyce - now aged 29, his time needs to come soon or it may never do. Still think he's a better bet than some for a ODI middle-order berth, but I'd still have Afzaal ahead of him of those not currently in the side.
Sajid Mahmood - I sincerely hope we never see Mahmood in the ODI shirt again, as he's comfortably the worst bowler I've ever seen play 21 ODIs (which is what he has against ODI-standard teams). With an economy-rate of 6.28-an-over, an average of 42, and more significantly than ever, 14 performances of such utter woefulness they not merely beggar belief but also totally obscure the fact that he has actually bowled well on a couple of occasions (India in Jamshedpur, Pakistan at Edgbaston). And also decidely on the poor side of average on 4 other occasions.
Dimitri Mascarenhas - a poor tour of New Zealand, after a frustrating one of Sri Lanka, but he was far from the only bowler to cop punishment (6.64-an-over) on the misshapen grounds. Provided he starts next summer well domestically, I still very much want him to be in the first team picked for a ODI in it.
Philip Mustard - as I said in the tour thread: 10 ODI innings, 1 half-century on a ground where a decent chipmunk player could probably score more often than not, and an average of 16.66 in the other 9. I was wrong about him being the next Matthew Prior: he's actually even worse.
Monty Panesar - should never have played a ODI at the current time, and it showed as he conceded (against ODI-standard sides) 4.70-an-over, coupled with an average of 47.83. Classic case of the assumption being made that a good Test bowler is ODI ready despite considerable domestic evidence he's not. If MSP is to learn how to bowl in the one-day game, he needs to do it in domestic cricket. And now Swann has proved himself MSP's superior, hopefully he might do that. If he doesn't, though, the notion that he's a good Test bowler so has to be a good ODI one must be dumped. And we all know there's not much chance of that.
Kevin Pietersen - still obviously the best one-day batsman in the country, and by a long way too with Trescothick absent. But since the summer of 2007 his performances have not suggested this at all: in 20 innings he averages 31.05, with just 2 scores over 53. Needs to get back to his normal self, really. Thankfully he's one person we can have reasonable confidence does actually have it in him.
Liam Plunkett - after the start he had (after 16 games he had an economy-rate of 6.11-an-over, coupled with an average of 44.87) it would probably have been something close to inconceivable that he'd manage 19 wickets in 9 games at an average of 23.57 (despite the economy-rate remaining execrable at 5.68-an-over), which he has in his last 9 games against ODI-standard sides. Yet I think most people know this involved not-much in the way of good bowling and a lot of being in the right place at the right time. We might well see him again, and if he gets belted again without getting gifted any more wickets to dispel any myth that those figures in early 2007 might actually be a promising sign, that's probably good.
Matthew Prior - as we all know, picked as an aggressive opener, he hasn't been anything of the sort. 22.57 isn't even a remotely good enough average even if he was doing the aggressive job anyway. Hopefully we'll never see him again, even if it does mean we're subjected to Mustard for a bit longer in the meantime.
Owais Shah - credit where it's due, he's been better in his most recent phase than he'd ever been in his previous 3. However, after a good series against West Indies, he's averaged 28.50 in his next 14 innings from the India series onwards, and that would be 21.15 if Umpires could spot edges to wicketkeepers. Still think there's next to no chance he'll ever be a ODI-standard batsman.
Ryan Sidebottom - looking like developing into a decent ODI bowler, opening and in the middle. And occasionally even at the end.
Graeme Swann - excellent start (effectively) to his career in Sri Lanka, disappointing time in NZ but I'm actually not sorry at all that he missed the last 3 games. No spinner is ever going to get much from being slogged over stupidly short boundaries. Just a shame it happened at all in the first 2 games. Still fully expect him to start next summer well domestically and come straight back into the ODI side.
Chris Tremlett - 6 ODIs against ODI-standard teams, economy-rate 6.18-an-over, average 84.25. Let's hope we never see him in the shorter form of the game again, as it might damage his undoubted prospects in the longer one.
Luke Wright - still truly flabbergasted he's ever got anywhere near a ODI side. Looks positively oafish with bat in hand, and if someone suggests to me that he can bowl to any decent standard I might have to kill them.
Michael Yardy - until Wright I'd never have believed a worse supposed-all-round player could be selected. I was wrong there, but I wasn't wrong about how awful Yardy is. Still cannot fathom how, even with his being-in-the-right-place-at-the-right-time, he's probably going to finish with a career economy-rate of 3.21-an-over. But the fact that he's a batsman, and one who averages less than 20 at domestic level, tells its own story.
This doesn't really fill me with confidence. Anyone honestly feel differently?
James Anderson - never been much of a ODI bowler for mine, his figures have flattered him more than a few times, but even despite this his economy-rate against ODI-standard teams is at the culmination of this winter over 5-an-over, and the average over 30. I don't know how much longer we're going to be able to pretend.
Ian Bell - still completely remain to be convinced of his worth in the shorter game, though he's obviously better than many batsmen we've tried of late.
Ian Blackwell - bit of a stretch, given he last played in the winter of 2005\06, but with 29 ODIs against ODI-standard teams behind him and a reasonable economy-rate of 4.32-an-over (average 37.13) it remains a mystery that MSP was ever selected ahead of him, though Graeme Swann is clearly the superior bowler. I still don't think his chances of returning to the fray are completely gone, though I've never thought a hell of a lot of him either.
Ravinder Bopara - still all he's done in his career to date is play those two breathtakingly calm innings against Sri Lanka (in what was essentially his first ODI innings) and India at Old Trafford. Now, perhaps it'd be a bit harsh to judge him with any great conviction. These two innings aside, he's had 14 others against ODI-standard sides. In 8 of these I think you could accurately sum-up that he had roughly zero opportunity to make a significant impact - either the game was already effectively decided when he walked to the crease or he was coming in with a handful of overs left in the first-innings. Yet in the other 6 he's been roundly disappointing, not showing a trace of the required traits to play the role he's been given. So really, there's no point in him batting at seven, ever again. If he is to be recalled, it has to be in the top-order, and given that Bell, Pietersen and Collingwood appear ensconced there there doesn't appear any immediate prospect of that.
Stuart Broad - a fairly decent winter's work for the Leics\Notts seamer: though his economy-rate (5-an-over) remained poor, his average (22) was excellent. There's perhaps just 4 games out of 10 that you could actually say he bowled terribly well in, and undoubtedly he benefited from friendly surfaces. I remain to be convinced, but he's certainly done better this winter than he'd ever done before (after his first 16 games his record read 5.15-an-over at 36.68).
Paul Collingwood - averaged 29.50 this winter, fairly typically nondescript.
Alastair Cook - pretty much the same now as it was at the start of last summer: promise, but still much to be done if he's to become a ODI opener out of the top (and increasingly unopened type of) drawer. Had 19 innings since becoming a first-choice now, and has played several fine innings, but has also fallen cheaply too often, as well as too often wasting too many deliveries then getting out. I still want him at the top of the order, as I don't see anyone else doing a better job, but as I say - much to be done if he's to become an integral part of a powerful England ODI side.
Jamie Dalrymple - not sure we'll ever see him again, and was poorly used later on in his career, batting (not unlike Bopara) in a position he was completely dissuited to. But like Bopara, he doesn't really immediately strike as having many of the tools to succeed in ODIs. And also like Bopara, seems some people think more of his bowling than they should.
Andrew Flintoff - the only remaining current player to have played in the 1990s (and even then, he damn well should not have done), it appears more and more unlikely with every new setback that Flintoff will ever be a true force again. A shame, as he's a good head above all England's other ODI bowlers and, while never a batsman of any remarkable class, certainly good for runs far more often than most bowlers. Let's hope we see him again, and soon.
Edmund Joyce - now aged 29, his time needs to come soon or it may never do. Still think he's a better bet than some for a ODI middle-order berth, but I'd still have Afzaal ahead of him of those not currently in the side.
Sajid Mahmood - I sincerely hope we never see Mahmood in the ODI shirt again, as he's comfortably the worst bowler I've ever seen play 21 ODIs (which is what he has against ODI-standard teams). With an economy-rate of 6.28-an-over, an average of 42, and more significantly than ever, 14 performances of such utter woefulness they not merely beggar belief but also totally obscure the fact that he has actually bowled well on a couple of occasions (India in Jamshedpur, Pakistan at Edgbaston). And also decidely on the poor side of average on 4 other occasions.
Dimitri Mascarenhas - a poor tour of New Zealand, after a frustrating one of Sri Lanka, but he was far from the only bowler to cop punishment (6.64-an-over) on the misshapen grounds. Provided he starts next summer well domestically, I still very much want him to be in the first team picked for a ODI in it.
Philip Mustard - as I said in the tour thread: 10 ODI innings, 1 half-century on a ground where a decent chipmunk player could probably score more often than not, and an average of 16.66 in the other 9. I was wrong about him being the next Matthew Prior: he's actually even worse.
Monty Panesar - should never have played a ODI at the current time, and it showed as he conceded (against ODI-standard sides) 4.70-an-over, coupled with an average of 47.83. Classic case of the assumption being made that a good Test bowler is ODI ready despite considerable domestic evidence he's not. If MSP is to learn how to bowl in the one-day game, he needs to do it in domestic cricket. And now Swann has proved himself MSP's superior, hopefully he might do that. If he doesn't, though, the notion that he's a good Test bowler so has to be a good ODI one must be dumped. And we all know there's not much chance of that.
Kevin Pietersen - still obviously the best one-day batsman in the country, and by a long way too with Trescothick absent. But since the summer of 2007 his performances have not suggested this at all: in 20 innings he averages 31.05, with just 2 scores over 53. Needs to get back to his normal self, really. Thankfully he's one person we can have reasonable confidence does actually have it in him.
Liam Plunkett - after the start he had (after 16 games he had an economy-rate of 6.11-an-over, coupled with an average of 44.87) it would probably have been something close to inconceivable that he'd manage 19 wickets in 9 games at an average of 23.57 (despite the economy-rate remaining execrable at 5.68-an-over), which he has in his last 9 games against ODI-standard sides. Yet I think most people know this involved not-much in the way of good bowling and a lot of being in the right place at the right time. We might well see him again, and if he gets belted again without getting gifted any more wickets to dispel any myth that those figures in early 2007 might actually be a promising sign, that's probably good.
Matthew Prior - as we all know, picked as an aggressive opener, he hasn't been anything of the sort. 22.57 isn't even a remotely good enough average even if he was doing the aggressive job anyway. Hopefully we'll never see him again, even if it does mean we're subjected to Mustard for a bit longer in the meantime.
Owais Shah - credit where it's due, he's been better in his most recent phase than he'd ever been in his previous 3. However, after a good series against West Indies, he's averaged 28.50 in his next 14 innings from the India series onwards, and that would be 21.15 if Umpires could spot edges to wicketkeepers. Still think there's next to no chance he'll ever be a ODI-standard batsman.
Ryan Sidebottom - looking like developing into a decent ODI bowler, opening and in the middle. And occasionally even at the end.
Graeme Swann - excellent start (effectively) to his career in Sri Lanka, disappointing time in NZ but I'm actually not sorry at all that he missed the last 3 games. No spinner is ever going to get much from being slogged over stupidly short boundaries. Just a shame it happened at all in the first 2 games. Still fully expect him to start next summer well domestically and come straight back into the ODI side.
Chris Tremlett - 6 ODIs against ODI-standard teams, economy-rate 6.18-an-over, average 84.25. Let's hope we never see him in the shorter form of the game again, as it might damage his undoubted prospects in the longer one.
Luke Wright - still truly flabbergasted he's ever got anywhere near a ODI side. Looks positively oafish with bat in hand, and if someone suggests to me that he can bowl to any decent standard I might have to kill them.
Michael Yardy - until Wright I'd never have believed a worse supposed-all-round player could be selected. I was wrong there, but I wasn't wrong about how awful Yardy is. Still cannot fathom how, even with his being-in-the-right-place-at-the-right-time, he's probably going to finish with a career economy-rate of 3.21-an-over. But the fact that he's a batsman, and one who averages less than 20 at domestic level, tells its own story.
This doesn't really fill me with confidence. Anyone honestly feel differently?
One of us can bump this thread in 5 years time and can be smug about it! 
