View Poll Results: Is relegation a good thing in sport?

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  • Yes

    18 85.71%
  • No

    3 14.29%
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Thread: Relegation: good thing or bad thing?

  1. #376
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Maybe I just read you saying it so many times I assumed it was multiple people.

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  2. #377
    Evil Scotsman Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel_Vimes View Post
    Yup, all 09-10 data. So it's all Championship revenue.
    Aha, that makes much more sense then.
    ​63*

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  3. #378
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Coincidentally to this discussion we are having here, there has been an issue come up in the AFL today which is kind of relevant to this debate.

    Collingwood are pretty much the richest AFL club. Their player salary spending is capped, however the spending of one's football departments (i.e. coaches, training facilities etc.) is not capped. Collingwood have traditionally spend a lot on their football department (much more than say North Melbourne have, which is Benchy's team and probably the poorest club in the AFL).

    One of Collingwood's big expenditure projects has been flying their entire team to Arizona pre-season for training, as the high altitude improves player's stamina and endurance. They have a few injured players in their ranks and plan on sending these players to Arizona during the season to recover. We're talking go there for 5-6 days whilst they have a bye in the fixture. There are many clubs which would simply not be able to consider this as an option, and others who could do it but would have to sacrifice in another important area of their football department.

    Tthis news only came out today but the rumour is the AFL is uncomfortable with this. For a while there has been talk of putting a cap on football department spending. I would not be surprised if this is the final straw for the AFL Commission.

    Anyway food for thought.
    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Not sure how I feel about capping football department spending, but it's definitely one area where the richer clubs have a perceived advantage. Having said that NM have a fine young coach as it stands, and I don't know too many coaches in the league I'd swap him for at this stage. Think it is an area which clubs will try and exploit in the future though.
    Bit of a bump, in the end it turns out the AFL are not going to cap football department spending... but the AFL is doing its very best (with the clubs helping) to make sure the competition ensures that every fan has a genuine belief that the club they support has the ability to win a premiership in their lifetime.

    Direct comments about ensuring the AFL does not become the EPL being made by captains of football clubs, and insinuated by the CEO and Chairman.

    Saint wary of EPL-like competition
    Last edited by Jono; 24-03-2013 at 08:18 AM.

  4. #379
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    I note that AD mentioned last night that they may look to cap the number of people allowed in the football department. Might be an avenue worth exploring. Would be hard to police though.
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  5. #380
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Yeah was happy that the discussion came up regarding that. That being said, that doesn't prevent some teams being able to fly players to Arizona mid-season whilst others can't etc.

    Its a tricky issue isn't it. Personally I am not 100% in favour of capping football department spending or numbers etc. as I think the innovation argument is strong.

    At the same time, I cannot provide a solid alternative to ensure the game stays even. Particulalry if the fixture is always going to favour Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond etc. and screw over Bulldogs, Melbourne, North, Port etc.
    Last edited by Jono; 25-03-2013 at 08:25 PM.

  6. #381
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Spikey's Avatar
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    seems odd noted Big 4 member Richmond are included with the have nots
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  7. #382
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    I swear I did not mean to, meant to include Richmond in the first bit and Dogs in the last.

    Edited now.

  8. #383
    International Captain Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Yeah was happy that the discussion came up regarding that. That being said, that doesn't prevent some teams being able to fly players to Arizona mid-season whilst others can't etc.

    Its a tricky issue isn't it. Personally I am not 100% in favour of capping football department spending or numbers etc. as I think the innovation argument is strong.

    At the same time, I cannot provide a solid alternative to ensure the game stays even. Particulalry if the fixture is always going to favour Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond etc. and screw over Bulldogs, Melbourne, North, Port etc.
    Is the goal really to keep our competitions 100% even though? I'm a big supporter of a salary cap for Australian sports but having discrepancies in the sizes of clubs allows fans to build up rivalries, context and narrative that make following sport interesting. I'm not sold on the benefit of things like Arizona boot camps either and I'm not sure how (past a certain point) backroom football spending does all that much to obtain the best players and keep them playing at their peak. I think the diversity of grand finalists both codes have seen in the last decade backs that up.

    For me there's much bigger question marks around the ability of bigger clubs to use their market share and corporate connections to obtain lucrative 3rd party deals. It's obviously a tough thing to police but that extra 200k per year is going to do far more to entice a star player than better facilities and an extra 30 administrative staff.
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  9. #384
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    What's with the logic in making clubs pay 100% of the salary cap? Surely there has to be stages in a club's cycle where they can't be paying it.

  10. #385
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    That's the key point here.

    Unfortunately England could never implement it because there are other major leagues playing the same code in Spain, Italy, Germany etc. So this is an argument over theory.

    But that doesn't mean one should criticise the cap and wear as a badge of honour the fact that the rich teams are the ones that win all the time. It's a testament to the passion of many football fans that they follow their team so passionately despite having literally 0% chance of winning the title, unless a billionaire Arab walks in and takes over their football club of course
    literally wrong tbf

  11. #386
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    In seriousness having bumped two threads to poke fun at Jono, I find these discussions really interesting. I am quite vocal about my distaste for many things in the modern game but still strongly believe many of the things I argued over the past decade on these sorts of subjects

    Relegation is the most brutal thing in all of sports. Hopefully one day I'll find out what the opposite is like. But the fact it exists keeps our game honest, and though - let's be serious - Leicester are the exception that proves the rule (c Smitteh), what they have done vindicates this whole point about the dream that many of us footy fans have talked of. Over the course of this thread's life, Swansea have gone from League One to Prem, Bournemouth League Two to Prem (with a fair bit of yoyoing at the bottom I believe), Burton Albion have gone from deepest non league to the Championship. Exeter have gone from non league to League One and then back to League Two. My beloved TRFC have dropped from the top of League One to sixth in non-league in two and a half years. Wolves went from the Prem to League One then back to the Championship. S****horpe have been up and down about eight times.

    It may be predictable at the top (this season aside, though we've not had back to back champions for a while now) but the fluidity of the pyramid as a whole remains a great thing and is the reason why millions flock through the turnstiles week after week.

    Salary cap a different argument of course.

  12. #387
    You'll Never Walk Alone Nate's Avatar
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  13. #388
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate View Post
    blackp00l
    How could I miss them from my summary. Can't remember what year they went up from League One, suspect it may have been 06-07 but possibly 07-08. If so then in this thread's lifecycle they've gone from League One to League Two via the premier league

    And it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of fans

  14. #389
    Hall of Fame Member Pothas's Avatar
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    Bees got relegated to League Two and won just 5 games the season that this thread was made.

  15. #390
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    In the right context I think relegation can be a wake up call for a club. For us, after 13 years of stagnation it wasn't the case but when it comes out of the blue it can spur a club onto a rebuild. It's for that reason I expect Villa to struggle next season - their trajectory in the prem is similar to ours in league one. Honestly think they might go down again.

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