For all you Ganguly haters...

[marc71178]

marc71### you are full of drivel! You are saying all the indian bowlers are of same skill, huh?

Yes, they are all of pretty much the same level.

Australia missing McGrath is so much a bigger deal because they do not have someone just about his same level. India's back-up are about the same level as their first choice, so the loss is not felt anywhere near as much.

 

[marc71178]

Well So was the Indian Attack.

No, they were not, they were not massively understrength because the replacements are at more or less the same standard.

Warnie has never been effective against India and I think Stuart macill did a better job.

Therefore Harbajan missing can be written off as well, as his record outside India is poor.

Gillespie was there

Injured

 

[Swervy]

ya but still there are pretty good chances that england would be behind india in the not too distant future, what does that mean. maybe it proves what some beleive, that england's recent success isnt as great as some might advocate.

I think you are assuming that India will beat Australia...which is a big assumption Even if you draw the series, England will still be ranked above India...so what does that prove (nothing really coz we cant predict whats going to happen, but I thought I would join in with your game)

 

[Sanz]

No, they were not, they were not massively understrength because the replacements are at more or less the same standard.

Are you telling me that Irfan pathan and Balaji were as good as Javagal Srinath and injury free Zaheer Khan ??

Therefore Harbajan missing can be written off as well, as his record outside India is poor.

Well we were not the one who claimed that We beat a half strength aussie side

Injured

And I thought he played in 3 tests. That must have been the ghost of gillespie who played in 3 tests and bowled down 140 overs. Only other fast bowled who bowled more than Gillespie was Agarkar who bowled 155 overs in 4 tests. That means the ghost of Gillespie bowled more than any other fast bowler in the 3 tests he played.

 

[marc71178]

Are you telling me that Irfan pathan and Balaji were as good as Javagal Srinath and injury free Zaheer Khan ??

They weren't that much worse, certainly nowhere near the gap that there is between McGrath and any replacement for him.

And I thought he played in 3 tests.

And that stops him being injured how exactly?

Breaking down in one game, then missing the next then only being selected because of the lack of McGrath suggests to me he wasn't anywhere near 100% fit.

 

[viktor]

They weren't that much worse, certainly nowhere near the gap that there is between McGrath and any replacement for him.




And that stops him being injured how exactly?

Breaking down in one game, then missing the next then only being selected because of the lack of McGrath suggests to me he wasn't anywhere near 100% fit.

All this talk IMO is leading nowhere. The bottom line is , before the tour started, inspite of the fact that it was ovious McGrath wasn't playing, nobody gave India much chance. thus them drawing the series is a greater acheivement than Eng beating WI which it was expected to.

 

[Son Of Coco]

and i guess the suspension caught everyone by surprise (even though they had about 10 months to sink it in)

THe difference being, suspended, but could still be considered as a player missing from the team compared to someone who's retired and therefore would never have been under consideration in the first place. You don't hear the Kiwi's going "we were surprised by the unavailability of Hadlee" after going down to England.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Well So was the Indian Attack. Warnie has never been effective against India and I think Stuart macill did a better job. Gillespie was there, Lee was there. So only people who really missed out and could have made the difference were Glen Mcgrath and some Australian Umpires(Although Bucknor didn't let us miss aussie umpires).

Gillespie and Lee were coming back from injury (while we're making all these claims about our bowlers I think it's only fair), MacGill is not and never will be Warne. As for the Aussie umpires, pots and kettles big fella, pots and kettles.

 

[viktor]

As for the Aussie umpires, pots and kettles big fella, pots and kettles.

jus curious, when did a bad decision given by an Indian umpire a) turn the course of the match and b) was not taken apart by the aussie players and media ?

 

[Son Of Coco]

jus curious, when did a bad decision given by an Indian umpire a) turn the course of the match and b) was not taken apart by the aussie players and media ?

You'll have to give me some time for this one Viktor if you want a specific example........I'll do a bit of googling for you. Are you suggesting that bad decisions made by the Australian umpires are not being crucified by media? We get away with a lot over here don't we!? No wonder we're on top........it's all luck and the fact that our players and umpires get away with absolutely everything. No, where was that article re: the Aussie players always being last left in the nets......

 

[viktor]

You'll have to give me some time for this one Viktor if you want a specific example........I'll do a bit of googling for you. Are you suggesting that bad decisions made by the Australian umpires are not being crucified by media? We get away with a lot over here don't we!? No wonder we're on top........it's all luck and the fact that our players and umpires get away with absolutely everything. No, where was that article re: the Aussie players always being last left in the nets......

I am not for a moment suggesting that the aussies umps get away with it. I just couldn't recall an incident where an indian ump made a horrendous decision ( for example Bucknor with Sachin ) and it affected the course of the match and so was played up in the media.
I do remember one with Steve Waugh in an ODI but I think he was out in that one.
Chill out. I am not about to start a debate about whether u guys get away with it more than the others. there's already another thread for that . like i said, just curious

 

[Deja moo]

Gillespie and Lee were coming back from injury (while we're making all these claims about our bowlers I think it's only fair), MacGill is not and never will be Warne.

Harbhajan was injured too. Zaheer carried an injury in the first test and still picked up a five-for.

As for the Aussie umpires, pots and kettles big fella, pots and kettles.

Dont use those words if you do not have back up evidence while saying it .

 

[Son Of Coco]

Harbhajan was injured too. Zaheer carried an injury in the first test and still picked up a five-for.




Dont use those words if you do not have back up evidence while saying it .

I'm not sure it's worth arguing over who was injured/most injured. Basically Gillespie and Lee couldn't perform to their best ability due to coming back from injury. I wouldn't expect either of them to be as effective as they could be having not had the match practice etc before the whole thing began. As someone else mentioned on here Gillespie actually pulled out injured during the series and then only came back presumably because our other bowlers weren't that effective.

As for evidence re: Indian umpiring here you go, feel free to check out:

usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/CRICKET_NEWS/2001/FEB/077954_SL_26FEB2001.html

newsvote.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/in_depth/2000/england_on_tour/1210975.stm

and here's a quote for you: "England went into lunch on 174 for five before another blunder from Jayaprakash precipitated the final decline. Craig White prodded forward to Muttiah Muralitharan in the 103rd over of the innings and offered a simple bat-pad catch. Jayaprakash ruled not out and the Barmy Army wailed with delight. The next ball White tried to sweep a full-length ball. It struck him outside the line of off stump, but the dreaded finger went up nevertheless."

I'm not saying that Indian umpires are any worse than umpires from any other country. It seems that there's quite a few mistakes being made by umpires from nearly all countries. THe post I originally replied to seemed to be indicating that this is primarily the lot of Aussie umpires though and this is patently not the case.

Anyway........what was the topic of this thread again?

 

[Arrow]

I was looking over gangulys ODI stats today.
36% of his centuries were scored against the likes the kenya,namibia,bangladesh and zimbabwe.
Tendulkar sits at 27%
Lara 16%

Seems like the indians play the easy beat teams often and their records benefit from them,mainly Ganguly.

Its easy to beat up on the lightweights but against the likes of australia he has only got 1 century.
His stats flatter him.

 

[Majin]

Dravid hasn't captained India enough to compared to Ganguly. It's worth noticable that the only test he captained in Pakistan, India lost.

Erm, excuse me, I think you'll find Dravid captained two matches, one was the match Sehwag scored his 309 and India crapped on Pakistan in an innings and 52 runs. And that pitch was horrible to bowl on, so to bowl them out twice, the indian bowlers can't be THAT bad...they aren't the best, but they don't suck as bad as some people make them out too.

The other he lost yes. His batting seems to lose it a bit when He's the captain though. When Ganguly came back for the 3rd test Dravid made his 270 after a run of low scores, but that might just be coincidence. But in that third match as well they won by an innings and 131 runs, so yeah.

 

[Sanz]

Erm, excuse me, I think you'll find Dravid captained two matches, one was the match Sehwag scored his 309 and India crapped on Pakistan in an innings and 52 runs.

I believe Ganguly was still in Pakistan and was passing on the orders then.

 

[aussie_beater]

I believe Ganguly was still in Pakistan and was passing on the orders then.

yes, and that's why Ganguly also got a lot of flak from the Sachin fans when Dravid declared in that test with Sachin stranded on some 190 odd runs.

 

[honestbharani]

I was looking over gangulys ODI stats today.
36% of his centuries were scored against the likes the kenya,namibia,bangladesh and zimbabwe.
Tendulkar sits at 27%
Lara 16%

Seems like the indians play the easy beat teams often and their records benefit from them,mainly Ganguly.

Its easy to beat up on the lightweights but against the likes of australia he has only got 1 century.
His stats flatter him.

I don't think his stats are that bad against Pakistan and South Africa, the two other teams who have had good bowling attacks over the past few years. Sure, Aussies have had a lot of success against him but then again, it is because of this that they are the best side in the world. They get the really good players out cheaply.

 

[masterblaster]

I don't think his stats are that bad against Pakistan and South Africa, the two other teams who have had good bowling attacks over the past few years. Sure, Aussies have had a lot of success against him but then again, it is because of this that they are the best side in the world. They get the really good players out cheaply.

Your right, the record Ganguly has against South Africa is unbelievable, infact much better than many other comtemporary batsmen in cricket today.

And what makes his record against South Africa even better is that most of the times he's played and succeeded against them, he's played on South African pitches.

Ganguly isn't as bad as many people make him out to be.

 

[honestbharani]

Your right, the record Ganguly has against South Africa is unbelievable, infact much better than many other comtemporary batsmen in cricket today.

And what makes his record against South Africa even better is that most of the times he's played and succeeded against them, he's played on South African pitches.

Ganguly isn't as bad as many people make him out to be.

I think the problem here is that because he is a little arrogant and always speaks his mind, people (maybe even sub-consciously) carry their dislike for his attitude on to his play. I think he is a reasonably good test player and a terrific one day player and one of the best captains India has ever had and those achievements do make him a certainty in the pantheon of Indian cricketing greats.